Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just curious. Comparing the breeding of snakes and dogs, mutts are seen as various species of dogs bred together. They have no traceable heritage and aren't sought after as far as I know. Now is doing the same thing with snakes simply producing mutts? Sure hybrid snakes are somewhat of a new thing and get a nice price now but does anyone else think that these will eventually be the mutts of the reptile industry? Purebred dogs get a much better price due to the selective breeding of pure animals because people know what they are actually getting.

Dog breeds were created in captivity. Snake species exsist in the wild. All dogs are biologically the same species and are genetically very close to each other except for the easily manipulated physical differences. Two species of snake that look very similar are probably more different than a Borzoi and a Inca orchid.
But some hybrids of snakes are already worth considerably less than their parent species. They're only worth something, really if they're pretty or new. Lots if they're both.

Previous threads would indicate that you already have a well formed opinion. Are you looking for input or just trolling?

Yes I already have an opinion on the matter. But I was trying to understand the importance of making all these hybrids. I really haven't seen that many hybrids that just stand out and are really distinct looking from the parents. Most seem to look just like a Corn...or whatever parent that was bred to produce the offspring.

Since you seem to be determined to find something important consider this. With the regulatory environment becoming increasingly repressive, hybridization may become the last refuge of private hobbyists. Ask yourself who has jurisdiction over a jungle corn, Florida or California? This would represent an extreme scenario but by and large I think that hybridization represents a true step towards domestication, a designation we will all eventually need to seek if we want to be able to continue working with these animals.

That being said, perhaps you shouldn't take this thing so seriously. Why does this have to be important? Ad hoc captive propagation of these animals is only important from the perspective that fewer animals need to be wild collected to fill the demand created by the pet trade and even this is arguable. Does it matter if animals filling this need are pure? If someone unlearns a life long fear of snakes though association with a captive animal does it matter if it was hybrid?

Further, I disagree with your observation that hybrids look like one of the parent species. This is not always the case. I have seen some very attractive and distinctive looking hybrids and crosses. Taking you point though, even when the parent species are similar there is still the advantage of hybrid vigor. What surprises me is that nobody raises cane when animals are line bred to the nth degree in order to "extract" unique traits. Cross a slamming desert king with the best 50/50 Cal king you can find to produce distinctive, vigorous and highly attractive crosses and somebody is going to have something to say about it.

>>Just curious. Comparing the breeding of snakes and dogs, mutts are seen as various species of dogs bred together. They have no traceable heritage and aren't sought after as far as I know. Now is doing the same thing with snakes simply producing mutts? Sure hybrid snakes are somewhat of a new thing and get a nice price now but does anyone else think that these will eventually be the mutts of the reptile industry? Purebred dogs get a much better price due to the selective breeding of pure animals because people know what they are actually getting.

Using that comparison then actually 'breeds' of dog are just 'morphs' right? And hybrids would be wolfX dog or coyXdogs.
And hybrids do have traceable heritages and are sought after....or else, gee, why would they be bought and sold for moderatley good prices.
Purebred dogs go for more money because people don't realize that purebred means nothing compared to championed or not. Champions are dogs that best meet breed standards. Purebred is just two dogs that are papered with a lineage in the same breed and says nothing about correctness or quality. Like me taking two 'so-so' corns and getting more 'so-so' corns. Vs getting two totally great looking corns and doing the same.
Did I feed the troll enough? Or are you still hungry?
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Sonya

Did I feed the troll enough? Or are you still hungry?

I'm not a troll. I was just trying to see where the direction of hybrid snakes is going. When I see a hybrid that is listed as a Pyro X Greeri X Thayeri X Sinaloan X Corn etc, I kind of see it as a "mutt" snake. It's like breeding a German Shepherd X Doberman X Husky X Irish Setter X Pit Bull (just using these names as an example).

So what is the actual importance of breeding all these different species of snakes together? Especially when the results are something that just looks like a Corn snake for example.

Well I'm the owner of a German Shepherd Dog/Doberman/Lab mix, and she's a better dog than any of the above. Healthier too, so don't dis mutts. Purebred dogs are for the terminally vain.

>>I'm not a troll. I was just trying to see where the direction of hybrid snakes is going. When I see a hybrid that is listed as a Pyro X Greeri X Thayeri X Sinaloan X Corn etc, I kind of see it as a "mutt" snake. It's like breeding a German Shepherd X Doberman X Husky X Irish Setter X Pit Bull (just using these names as an example).
>>
Actually it would be more appropriately like breeding a Doberman to a Coyote to a Timber Wolf to a Red Wolf to a Dingo. Species not morphs.

>>So what is the actual importance of breeding all these different species of snakes together? Especially when the results are something that just looks like a Corn snake for example.

Creating something new. And the F2s that I have seen don't look like corns. That is one of the fascinating things. It is like finding new facets of herp genetics and working with them.
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Sonya

Most of the breeding people do isn't IMPORTANT... I mean... how important is breeding purebreds of common snakes?

P.S. My purebred dog is terminally CUTE. Absolutely nothing wrong with mutts, of course. We probably would have gotten one if we hadn't needed a rather small shorthaired dog for allergy reasons. (no she's not a chihuahua)

everyone i've talked to seems to have an opinion on this.i probably wont hybridize snakes myself,but i do enjoy seeing the results of other peoples' labors in so doing.for some it seems to be a moral issue of "producing mutts" , polluting bloodlines" or even "playing god" !i really don't have enough information to have a well formed opinion on this aspect of the subject,but it seems to me that there should at least be really accurate record keeping done for identification further down the line,and extra special care should be taken to insure that the snake doesn't escape into an area where it could breed-to cross species under controlled and confined conditions is one thing,but in the wild it could get downright chaotic!

I would like to know how and why you think it would create havoc in wild populations when there are numerous intergrades that occur naturally. The chance for any change in the what the snakes eat is real slim if one even exists--meaning that the hybrid would still most likely feed on the same prey items that the native snakes feed on. Don't get me wrong I think that people need to make every effort to make sure that their captive animals stay captive animals but the fact that one may escape that is a hybrid really makes no difference then if a pure bred snake would escape in an area that it is not native to. Your concept of HAVOC applies to both pure and hybrids. There is nothing wrong w/ creating new hybrids it is an exciting and new aspect of the herp industry!!

i didnt say there was anything wrong with it,in fact i enjoy seeing the hybrid animals produced by others(especially the ball x angolan python-check that one out! )i simply think it could get confusing if,say a hybrid escapes into the wild;say a corn x honduran hybrid escapes into a habitat where it later mates with a chain king and that mates with another species,ect.i know it may seem far fetched,but it could happen.i dont think hybridizing is irrisponsible,but i do think we must be responsible for our hybrids(and you're right ,our pure species too! )

Most dog breeds were produced for a specific purpose as domesticated service animals. A few were developed for ornamental aspects to serve as companions.

Snakes are neither domesticated service animals, nor companions. They are "display" animals, to be appreciated for their appearance more than anything. There is no interaction with a snake that comes close to the interaction you can have with a dog. If we didn't keep them in enclosures, they would leave without hesitation. If you smell like food, they will bite you.

That being the case, it makes perfect sense for people to 1) selectively breed the naturally occuring phases of snakes to enhance what we subjectively consider asthetically pleasing traits (compare a corn snake caught wild in the Okeetee region with an "okeetee" phase captive produced specimen), and 2) breed hybrids to produce colors and patterns not produced in nature to appreciate, subjectively, the result.