Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hello, i would like to find out what other people have use with building fake rocks for monitors so it must be strong, ive heard of, stryofoam,wire,quick set cement, tile grout colored,thinner to melt the foam to shapes, glues. would like to here some other experiances you guy have had working with this. any pic please post. im looking to build an large monitor cage with rock walls going into an waterfall and a large rock cave. im more seem to be going with quick set cement or tile grout and 1/4" wire. any thoughts
thanks

everything you need to know is there: http://www.treemonitors.com/diyfauxrock.html

i tried that technique and it work great...just need a lot of patience!

I have had great luck with styrofoam form, then quicksetting cement (I use anchoring coment) relatively inexpensive and sets up quick, so work fast! make sure you put it on thick enough 1/2 in. at least.
as you know(I'm sure) monitors have some pretty wicked claws.
really no need to seal it as the cement is waterproof.
you can make any shape, object you want.

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cdeer
High-End Habitats
custom pvc enclosures
1-Nic. boa
1-B.P.

I think one big flaw in the grout/cement atop polystyrene method, that nobody ever thinks of or takes into consideration when planning, is the fact that these aggregates will most likely not stand up to the test of time, and will begin to crack.

By simply glopping a grout or cement on top of a solid object, you are offering nothing to strengthen the structure, and nothing to hold the structure together. This is the same reason why doctors do not use plaster alone when making a cast, or the reason why a fiberglass shop doesn't use just resin.

These two situations call for backing; a material which adds support, and connects/affixes the mixture/aggregate together. In the case of a doctor and a plaster cast, a net-like muslin/cloth tape is used to bond together with the plaster, rendering the cast strong, uncrackable/unbreakable. In the case of the fiberglass shop, they use glass fiber cloth or matting to mix with their resins for added strength, and stability. Without a fiber cloth, the resin would simply crack and break apart.

The same thing does, and will happen in these grout or concrete-atop styrofoam situations. In cement construction, masons do not lay down just cement for a sidewalk, they use a network of reinforcing wiring and rebar. Even for small scale cement jobs, a backing is used to prevent cracking.

This is why I stand behind my approach(which has been tried and true for decades now within the exhibitry industry), as it produces favorable long term results. By using a lathe underlayment, the cement becomes one continuous stucture, which is bonded and rigid.

Most of the people who swear by the grout/cement atop styrofoam technique, have only a limited amount of time with it in their situation(months, maybe a year or two). Over time, these facades will not stand up to the everyday wear and tear that it is put through, and the simple fact that it is a mixture set atop a solid structure, it has no stability or reinforcement to prevent it from cracking.

Cheaper and faster is usually not the best choice, especially when you want to do things the right way, in order for something to last. Not to mention I have yet to see any project done with the cement/styro or grout/styro method that resulted in an authentic looking finished product. It usually turns out looking like some unnatural object covered in cement or grout(which it is).

I am not saying there is one and only one way of doing things, as there surely isn't. There are in fact many ways of doing things correctly. In my opinion, and based on the further evolved and researched exhibit industry, structural integrity and realism are the two utmost important aspects governing faux rock construction. I just do not see the styrofoam approach satisfying either one of these 'requirements', no matter what size or scale the project is.

These are my thoughts on the subject at hand. I have 'been around the block' in the fabrication industry for several years now, and have seen my fair share of good work, shotty work, and utterly poor work. "Quick, Cheap, and Easy" usually end up in the latter.
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Treemonitors.com

There is one foam substrate method that has potential to deliver a good-looking final product. If a quality two-part urethane foam is used and time is taken to carefully build up the structure you can get a decent result. Taking that foam structure and then covering it with fiberglass resin [without reinforcing fiber] will allow you to make a durable structure that will resist damage from claws and general cleaning, provided the resin is laid down thick enough. The resin can also be tinted with the same powders or rock dust aggregates as you would use for concrete. A final touch up with an air brush and some acrylic paints can produce a result as good as the concrete and lathe approach. The key here though is that this is just involved as the concrete approach and will produce a realistic result, unlike the grout over foam method. The major advantage I see to this approach is producing features that can be lightweight and even removable whereas concrete structures pretty much have to be built-in. I plan on using the foam/resin method for creating some landscape features to go in some new cages I'm making. The same method has been used to make a lot of features that are part of many of our larger exhibits in the zoo I work at.
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Matt Campbell

Big animals, little animals, plants - right down to the sea itself. We need them, not just for their own sake, but because all this has to be here for everybody forever. Only one thing is certain: if we are to preserve our environment and save this priceless wildlife we need much, much more knowledge.
Harry Butler from 'In the Wild With Harry Butler' 1977

Have you ever worked with Zoopoxies from Polygem. I looked into it but cost is astronomical! I have not been doing this as long as you or odatriad but have had pretty good results with cement/foam. I do however think a reinforced mesh would be advantagious in a large set up with large snakes, lizards or turtles. As far as realism is concerned it just takes some research, experimentation and a little artistic talent I think.

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cdeer
High-End Habitats
custom pvc enclosures
1-Nic. boa
1-B.P.

Hey Matt,

Yes, I am well aware of the use of polyurethane foams and polyester resins(among many other composites) in exhibit construction. Unfortunately, for most peoples' situations here on this forum, these composites are out of the question, given their vile and harmful(even potentially fatal) nature. Polyester Resins are no fun, and require the use of respirators, ample ventilation, and sometimes even air-fed respirators/breathing aparati.

I think my brain may be fried due to years of exposure of these harmful agents, even with the use of a respirator.. I can say that when working with these chemicals and composites, even with the use of breathing aparati, I was prone to respiratory infection/chronic coughing, and breathing difficulties.

I would not recommend the use of these chemicals for use by the everyday hobbyist/keeper; especially inexperienced people. These are serious chemicals not to be reconned with by just anyone, which is why I recommend the cement approach to faux rock construction to private hobbyists. While noticeably heavier, working with cement is much safer and versatile than polyester resins and such; as well as allowing for a broader range of error.

Cheers,

Bob
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Treemonitors.com

Should the cement be sealed in some way if used for basking ledges and such? atrox182

Bob,

I agree about the resins as they can be pretty noxious, but according to the MSDS on the stuff I've used [which isn't that expensive], only a respirator with paint/solvent cartridges is what is required. The two part urethane foam has a slight odor but is by no means noxious enough to require the use of a respirator. The products I'm talking about specifically are made by Eager Plastics [www.eagerplastics.com]and I'm referring to the EP 4202 rigid casting foam [$37 for a two quart kit - $78 for 1 gallon which can yield an 8 foot by 8 foot block of foam], and the EP 4117 General Purpose laminating resin [about $37 for 1 gallon kit]. In response to the other mention of the Zoopoxy products, we've used at least one of their products to make climbing vines for our large exhibits at the zoo. I has a definite stink to it but again, not a highly toxic product. Also, the Zoopoxy products have the advantage of being completely non-toxic and inert in their cured stage. The Zoopoxy stuff is more expensive than the Eager Plastics stuff. Ultimately I think provided you do research and find good products that aren't overly toxic that urethane foams and fiberglass resins can yield excellent results without the weight issues with concrete. Of course if we're talking about working with concrete as being safe I'd have to say that in many respects even using it in a well ventilated area it's still potentially as dangerous or more dangerous than the chemicals previously mentioned and this primarily because the potential for respiratory problems associated with fine dust particles, among them a type lung ailment refered to as silicosis which is caused by breathing in fine particulates. Again, if you're going to be working with concrete you should still be at least wearing a dust mask and to be truly safe you should be using a cartridge respirator with dust filters.
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Matt Campbell

Big animals, little animals, plants - right down to the sea itself. We need them, not just for their own sake, but because all this has to be here for everybody forever. Only one thing is certain: if we are to preserve our environment and save this priceless wildlife we need much, much more knowledge.
Harry Butler from 'In the Wild With Harry Butler' 1977

point well taken.
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cdeer
High-End Habitats
custom pvc enclosures
1-Nic. boa
1-B.P.