Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello everyone,

Does anyone have Ohio locality photographs of black rat snakes that they could post on this forum? Neonate or adult/subadult animals are fine for content.

I have seen KY, IN and TN rat snakes in the wild, but have never come across any in OH. Do OH animals retain pattern and variable coloration as adults?

Thanks in advance for any info that can be provided.

Neil

Neil, in my experiences with them...they are not much different than KY speciens. Lots of pattern, yellow even as large adults....but all the snakes I've seen are from S Ohio...dont know about N OH animals.

This one is a 5'6" specimen from eastern Hamilton cty

head of same snake:

Here's an eastern Hamilton cty juvie with a large meal in his gut

This large adult (6' plus) male is from Western Hamilton cty. He was found crawling in the grass in the lawn of the company I worked for...about to venture onto a busy street, so I relocated him to a county park just a couple blocks away.

This was all I had to contain him for a few minutes...

...and I put him down in the cty park...

he crawls away...

Dean, thanks.

True, I wonder if there is an ecological gradient regarding color/pattern differences in OH ratsnakes?

Several OH websites that I visited had photos of darker, less patterned individuals when compared to yours.

The closer that we arrive to the Appalachian mountain chain, the darker the specimens get, in regards to rat snakes in KY and TN. NC mountain locality animals are mostly black, and some have a faint trace of pattern.

I wonder what rat snakes look like in the PA/OH border area?

Neil

I might be able to shed more light on this subject, or perhaps even raise more questions??

Most of my experience with OH ratsnakes involves SE OH. I would tend to say you can't really attribute the coloration as strictly an E/W thing. I will say I have seen far less in the Western part of the state, but none have been patternless. Whatever that tells you... I have no examples of Central OH, NW or extreme NE though. The many DORs I have seen in the S and SE have been extremely variable.

I guess I should just let the pictures do the talking though.

Not the best picture, but the first one I came across.

This individual had a fairly pronounced pattern.

Vinton Co, OH

Vinton Co, OH another lightly patterned individual

Vinton Co, OH with no pattern

Jackson Co, OH

Vinton Co, OH

Hamilton Co, OH

Columbiana Co, OH (Penn/OH border)

Vinton Co, OH very little pattern

Vinton Co, OH

Vinton Co, OH

Who knows what really is at play here... Is it age, elevation, habitat preferences, genetic flow from out of the mountains to the East or flow from the South and West, etc??

Jason

Being in the GCHS for many years and part of the "problem snake" squad, I've seen scores of SW Ohio black rats over the years. I have NEVER seen a very black one. The 2 from my post are typical, I've seen a few a bit darker and a few a bit lighter.

Funny though...the only solid black rat I ever saw in the wild was a DOR at Land between the lakes...on the western KY / TN
state line. I was positive it was a racer until I closely examined it. It was sharp...SOLID black dorsally, but it wasn't a melanistic specimen b/c it had the white under the chin and a normally colored black rat snake belly.

Dean and Jason, thanks for putting out the effort to post the pics.

All of those snakes are beautiful in their own way, but I love the specimen that Jason is holding. The yellow background with the lighter blotches is stunning.

Which OH counties are closest to the Appalachians in WV? Do any of you have pics of specimens from the WV/OH border?

I found a link with some WV black rat pics, but I'm not sure what county they hail from.

Great discussion, by the way.

Neil
http://www.amazilia.net/images/Herps/Snakes/BlackRatSnake.htm

Hmm from the top of my head those would include Meigs, Washington and Monroe Co. I think Athens actually hits the border as well. I don't know the other ones that extend north. Unfortunately, I have spent little to no time herping over there and can not say what the rats look like. Athens area ratsnakes have been just as variable as the ones from Vinton Co.

I am sure when Carl gets back in the country he will be able to add to the discussion a bit.

Jason

Funny enough I am from Jefferson county which is the northern most county that borders WV. Below that are Belmont, Monroe, Washington, Athens, Meigs, Gallia, and finally Lawrence.

I am sorry I don't have pictures but all the Black Rats that I remember keeping as a kid and those that I have seen recently have all been very dark. At least to the point where normal people would not see a pattern unless you pointed it out to them.

you are making me jealous! Who knows, I might have some luck this season and find some good stuff!

Chris

>>I might be able to shed more light on this subject, or perhaps even raise more questions??
>>
>>Most of my experience with OH ratsnakes involves SE OH. I would tend to say you can't really attribute the coloration as strictly an E/W thing. I will say I have seen far less in the Western part of the state, but none have been patternless. Whatever that tells you... I have no examples of Central OH, NW or extreme NE though. The many DORs I have seen in the S and SE have been extremely variable.
>>
>>I guess I should just let the pictures do the talking though.
>>
>>Not the best picture, but the first one I came across.
>>
>>This individual had a fairly pronounced pattern.
>>
>>Vinton Co, OH
>>
>>
>>Vinton Co, OH another lightly patterned individual
>>
>>
>>Vinton Co, OH with no pattern
>>
>>
>>Jackson Co, OH
>>
>>
>>Vinton Co, OH
>>
>>
>>Hamilton Co, OH
>>
>>
>>Columbiana Co, OH (Penn/OH border)
>>
>>
>>Vinton Co, OH very little pattern
>>
>>
>>Vinton Co, OH
>>
>>
>>Vinton Co, OH
>>
>>
>>
>>Who knows what really is at play here... Is it age, elevation, habitat preferences, genetic flow from out of the mountains to the East or flow from the South and West, etc??
>>
>>Jason
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