Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This afternoon I was cleaning some cages and took out a juvenile Outer Banks kingsnake, which I held in one hand, and a juvenile NJ eastern kingsnake, which I held in the other. I was appreciating the color and pattern differences between the two when I noticed that both snakes were staring and actively tongue flicking in each other's direction. This was occuring while each snake was in a different hand and several inches apart.

Well, as I was contimplating this interesting behavior, the NJ, in a split second, toar from my left hand, jumped and attacked the bigger Outer Banks juvi. The NJ had grabbed the OBk by the face before it had even landed in my other hand. In a reflex action, the OBk began twirling and wrapping its aggressor up tightly. The NJ then began wrapping the defending OBk... and almost instantly, a calm pair of eastern kingsnakes became a writhing ball of fury.

I have never seen such an aggressive attack by a snake in 28 years of keeping them. The only element that was more shocking than the initial attack, was the instantaneous reaction and counter by the Outer Banks king.

I just kind of stood there in shock for a second, until it sank in that two of my prized holdbacks were in fact strangling the $h!t out of each other in my hand. It took a couple of seconds but I did unwind and separate them before either one was killed, but I honestly don't think it would have lasted much longer as they were both hell bent killing the other. It was a toss up as to who would have prevailed, as the OBk's face was in the mouth of the NJ, but the NJ was wrapped and being actively constricted by the the Outer Banks king. They both meant business. Oh well, it was something to see. Naturally, both snakes fed on fuzzy mice almost immediately after separation, and are now resting comfortably.

Sorry I was unable to get pictures, but I didn't want to risk losing another second (or an eastern). It figures, they are both the most attractive snakes from their respective clutches, and coincidentally, both female (not implying anything ladies). Thanks.

Will

yeeoowch! Close call, huh? I have had different reactions with mine, but the worst was with 2 females. Much like yours. My males on the other hand, if they do react to one another, almost always seem to "puff up" and grandstand a bit.
Better watch those girls when it comes time to breed them.
I don't think you'd have been able to get a pic unless you have a 3rd hand.
Reminds us that lots of things can happen in an instant. Even to an experienced keeper.
Hope they both are o.k.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

thanks for the story. I had a very similar experience with two baby snakes I had. A desrt kingsnake and a mexican Milksnake. While I had them out to rearrange their tanks real quick, the Milksnake was behind the Desrt King and was watching it and was in a strike pose, the Kingsnake turned around, saw the Milksnake and got in a striking pose too. At the exact same time they both struck but the kingsnake was faster and his got to the milksnake first and caught the milksnakes head in its mouth, it started constricting the milksnake and if I had seperated them it would have killed the milk and ate it.

Also while working at an exotic petstore, a baby high yellow Califorina Kingsnake escaped from its cage and went into a baby eastern kingsnakes cage and ate it.
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1.0.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.0.0 Rosy Boa
1.0.0 Striped Python
1.0.0 Halloween Honduran Milksnake
0.1.0 Reverse Striped California Kingsnake
0.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnake
0.1.0 Apricot Pueblan Milksnake
0.0.1 Florida Kingsnake (het for hypo)
1.0.0 Albino Pacman Frog
0.0.1 Pacman Frog
0.1.0 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula
0.1.0 Pinktoe Tarantula
0.1.0 Brazilian Stripe Knee Tarantula
0.1.0 Cobalt Blue Tarantula
1.0.0 Texas Tan Tarantula
0.0.1 Emporer Scorpion

Too funny the little demons. Hey how did those Business cards come out ?

Keith
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Hey Keith,

The business cards came out awesome. Actually, several cards are en-route to you right now for your perusal. I took an example of your design in both formats to Office Max and they printed me a sample that looked really great. I was shocked at the detail that was captured in the pics and text. They had 500 made on glossy stock within a day. It was a good deal, however, they messed up the card size on my order. I originally ordered 2"x 3" cards, but they came back regular sized. Oh well, I was so happy to get them that I didn't care. Thanks again dude.

Will

this was a bummer for me, serves me right for not paying attention.

np

Iv'e spent over a year pysch-in him out to be that way, he is one of my best snakes and i was'nt about to fight with him over a cali.

Yes, seen that before with two of MY female Eastern Kings many years ago! And it's usually the females that fight the hardest.
During spring & summer the males tend to be different, especially when around females: In order to encourage breeding among males (in the spring), I use to put large males together, but they would never try to eat each other or even constrict each other. BUT, they would repeatedly chase each other, then deliver a nasty, hard bite (anywhere in the body) and then immediately let go to see who would crawl away first. Since neither could escape the enclosure they would do this again and again, but never were they interested in eating each other. They only wanted to drive each other away to see who would be the strongest and "get the girl" in the end. This old trick would normally bring out a strong mating response from some of my unwilling males (Of course only try this under CLOSE supervisison).
Other than that: Females NEVER fight for males, but do fight to EAT (as you have found out)!!! Of course, once autumn and early winter arrives, males will probably eat each other too if given the chance. . .
Glad to hear the snakes are Ok and have already shaken this off (by eating already).

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

I had a similiar incident occur but mine was more based on inexperience and stupidity. About 15 years ago I had acquired a hatchling Florida King and a hatchling Eastern King. When I got them, they were both housed with their siblings so I figured all would be fine to house them together. It was for the most part...they would eat fine, including some still-born water snakes, and never bothered each other and did not seem uncomfortable with the other in the cage. It was interesting to note that they would eat the water snakes but had no interest in each other as food. One day I received a Cal King from someone and I placed it in the cage to see what would happen, and they both immediately attacked it as food. It took a few minutes and giving up a finger to chew on for a minute, but I got them separated.

You said it best.

I thought that we all knew better. These are snake eaters! Of course there may be a confrontation if placed near each other.

What a disservice you did by placing each in danger.

Next time, care to place yourself in danger by walking down a dark alley and shouting offensive comments to locals??

Take Blueking along, just to bring out the "best breeder" response. Or, use common sense & logic instead, for a better outcome for all.

Next time - think.

All right...settle down. I did say that was 15 years ago and yes the next time and the thousands since I have used common sense. I merely added that here in case someone younger or as inexperienced was even thinking about it, they might not now. I did not have a forum to gain knowledge from, so yes, some wisdom can be gained by failures like successes.

Good answer!
Todd Hughes

Bad form Ameron. let's keep it civil, unless one has never made a mistake before....
Todd Hughes

With responses like that, please refrain from using the word "we"

Matt

You are commiting one right now to the readers of this board with your holier-than-thou attitude and nasty comments. So, why don't you save us the lecture until the day arrives when you actually are perfect. Thanks.

Will

err. . .I meant the almighty Ameron!
Ok, so I'm a little too mature to lower myself to somebody's level: Sorry for admitting that I grew into this hobby and learned from my own foolish, human mistakes. And sorry for having enough intestinal fortitude to admit it and share it!!!

Knowledge is best gained if it shared wether good or bad!!! For I am only a child of God . . .
Humility. . .such a painful word for some. . .

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

at the immaturity I just witnessed by reading your reply (unless you're not a grown-up)-(Or, maybe YOU are the only person in the world that has never made a mistake or tried something different):

[[[You said it best.

I thought that we all knew better. These are snake eaters! Of course there may be a confrontation if placed near each other.

What a disservice you did by placing each in danger.

Next time, care to place yourself in danger by walking down a dark alley and shouting offensive comments to locals??

Take Blueking along, just to bring out the "best breeder" response. Or, use common sense & logic instead, for a better outcome for all.

Next time - think.]]]

Ok, AMERON:
NEXT TIME, maybe YOU should THINK, before typing. . . .What a DISSERVICE YOU did by posting this.
You thought WE all knew better? You're implying that EVERYONE except you is ignorant!
Where's the COMMON SENSE and LOGIC in that belittling reply?
A better outcome for all: Relax, man - we're here to learn from each other not to slam each other!
. . Sorry for even reading your IMMATURE, reply . . . . very, very sorry!
I wish you all the best, never-the-less. . .

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-