Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have two gravid females (mated) and i have some concerns. They petstore i got them from said that the females have to be mated so they dont become eggbound, so i raised the male and female together until they started to breed so i put her in her own cage to lay the eggs.

It has been 29 days since Karma was bred and she is still showing no signs of wanting to lay. I have a bucket of damp bed-a-beast with a live plant on top for her. She is barely eating (a cricket or two a day) and drinking. All she does is bask and i can see the eggs (like jelly beans) in her sides. she also isnt as strong as she used to be and seems clumsey when she moves about. i try and syringe feed her water but she spits it out too.

she has always gotten dusted crickets and waxworms wtih UV lights. Her basking temp on the hot end is about 90-95 F and the cool end is about 75 F. Night time temp is 68-70 F. i keep her in a screen cage as well.

i am worried because tomorrow will be day 30 for her (since she was bred) and i thought they would lay eggs by then? i have an incubator all ready and i'm not sure what else i can do for her. i will post a second posting about the other female to help keep the replies straight. thanks for all who respond!

Ray

I with that myth would die! I have never had a veiled chameleon die eggbound because she wasn't mated...and I have had them live to be over 4 before the first mating many times. (I have two right now that have never been mated and are 4 years old.)

You said..."It has been 29 days since Karma was bred and she is still showing no signs of wanting to lay. I have a bucket of damp bed-a-beast with a live plant on top for her. She is barely eating (a cricket or two a day) and drinking. All she does is bask and i can see the eggs (like jelly beans) in her sides. she also isnt as strong as she used to be and seems clumsey when she moves about. i try and syringe feed her water but she spits it out too"...I think I would be worried about this female...not because she is not eating (that's normal), but because she isn't drinking and is weak, and clumsy. I think it might be time for her to see a vet. I don't want to scare you....but I don't want to lead you down the garden path either.

Has she dug at all?

You said..."i am worried because tomorrow will be day 30 for her (since she was bred) and i thought they would lay eggs by then?" 30 days is not a definite, they can lay them in a few days less or more than that.

You said.."i will post a second posting about the other female to help keep the replies straight"...I read and answered the other post first...so please read it too.

I hope all goes well for this chameleon. Keep me posted?

i was afraid of that i have looked into herp vets but a qualified certified one is not anywhere near my area. i live in a very rural town so we dont have stuff like that around.

i only recently got Karma and Loc from a petstore, they were "owner give-ups" because they were adults. i've only had them for 3 months now.

i have been doing seaches all over the web and they are both in pretty poor shape. i fear Karma has MBD and that is why she wont lay her eggs. Loc is fairly fat and healthy, but he has a lot of retained skin making his head look greyish. So he is getting warm baths and lots of water and misting.

But i dont know if Karma will make it through this i have a digital camera, i will try and take some pics of her to see if it is really MBD. thanks.

Ray

(still no eggs today)

You said..."i fear Karma has MBD and that is why she wont lay her eggs"...that is my fear too...but I'm not a vet and can't be sure. Some signs of MBD (I'll probably miss some) are what looks like an extra "elbow" on her arms, body not held up off the ground or branch, rubbery jaw or casque, legs that are not straight and back legs that may appear to be plump and have odd curves to them, can't extend/shoot the tongue out all the way, shakey, and lips slightly open at the tip in spite of the mouth being closed.

Are you giving Karma any extra calcium? (If you mentioned this in another post, I don't remember, and I can't check while I'm posting.) Calcium is not only important for strong bones but plays a part in muscle contractions as would be involved in laying eggs.

Re: hydration....do you have a needleless syringe or eyedropper that you could give her water with? Just be careful that you only five her a drop at a time so that she doesn't aspirate it (end up with it in her lungs).

Loc sounds like he is in better condition. The shed skin can be from certain imbalances in the diet or lack of humidity from what I've heard.

You said..."But i dont know if Karma will make it through this i have a digital camera, i will try and take some pics of her to see if it is really MBD...a picture will help if there are physical signs of it, but some tests at the vets would be better.

You said..."(still no eggs today)"...drat! I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she will be one of the lucky ones and make it through the egglaying inspite of her problems. Try digging a hole for her and putting her gently in it head first if she doesn't start to dig in a few days. Its a longshot...but it can't hurt.

she is much smaller then Yoko, almost by half. Her bottom jaw does not line up with the top one, giving her a slight "slack jawed" look. Her eyes seem too big for her head, or her head too small for her eyes. I am not sure about her joints, her legs look skinny but i dont see any swelling or bent areas. but she sure isnt as strong. i suspected this when i got the both of them (karma and loc), but i felt bad for them in the petstore.

i give her calcium every other time i feed her. but she is hardly eating now. maybe a cricket or two a day. she isnt taking any water i try and give her some wtih the syringe but she spits it out. and her mouth has more "drool" in it then Yoko. it seems like everytime she opens her mouth there is this slime on the sides (clear).

Also, instead of strong hisses, she makes a squeeking noise instead.

i feed her out of a cup, but come to think of it i dont think i've ever seen her fully extend her tounge to catch a lose cricket. she'll put her face right down in the bowl, an inch away from one, and get it that way.

i'll give her two more days, and then i'll dig a hole for her and put her in it. maybe she doesnt have the stregnth to do it herself.

Ray

I understand the way you felt about seeing Loc and Karma in the pet store. I've seen some sad ones there too. The downside of having bought them is that the pet store might buy more and continue the problem. Its always a dilema.

Karma sounds like she is in bad condition. Has she seen a vet? It may be her only hopt...and I don't think there is much time left to do it either. You said..."instead of strong hisses, she makes a squeeking noise instead" and that she has extra mucus in her mouth...she may have a respiratory infection as well as being in trouble concerning the egglaying and possible MBD. Poor girl.

Keep me posted please.

i spoke with the only vet near me (very rural town) and he is not certified in exotics. He doesnt know much about chameleons and told me he wouldn't feel comftorble answering my questions because he doesnt know. He refered me to an exotics vet, nearest is 4.5 hours drive away up the the highway. I just dont see getting there, and i doubt my truck will make it. Its an old ford, haha. (by old, i mean 1967). This is very discouraging, i did get her to take some flukers repta-aid though. she drank a lot of it too! and had some water as well. she drank much better today. but still not eating.

the vet said if i feel she is suffering, he can perform the euthasnia i had to put my dog down in october, so i guess you just know when it is time. poor girl has been had a rough time. it really irratates me that her first owners cared so little about her proper care, so that she has had to suffer all this time. how will i know when there isnt much i can do anymore? will i just know?

thanks for all the info. you have been a big help.

Ray

I don't know how to tell you when its time to consider euthanasia...but if you do, it needs to be done properly IMHO. Chameleons have a slow metabolism and its thought that their brains continue to "live" on for a while after. There is information on the net about it (I can't look it up right now...sorry).

I'm sorry that I'm not more help on this...but I'm not a vet and don't want to try to tell you what should be done.

Keep me posted please.

you are not going to believe this....just when i though all hope was lost i woke up yesterday morning and discovered karma was not in her cage. i was frantic until i heard a noise in her egg laying chamber! i looked closer and saw her two little eyes peering up at me as if to say, "leave me alone!" and she even gave a little squeak hiss. i gathered all my work clothes for the day and got ready in the guest room so not to disturb her. i left her alone all day and didnt even go into the room that evening after work, i was so worried and excited at the same time.

around midnight i couldnt take it anymore and i checked on her, and sure enough she was out of the hole as skinny as could be sleeping on her fave vine! i couldnt believe she laid the eggs!

i carefully dug them up, she only laid them about 2-3 inches under the surface. A total of 32 eggs! They are all bright white and the size of a normal jelly bean (not jelly belly). They are all in the incubator where they have remained since.

PHEW, i was so worried! she almost went to 40 days since being bred!

thanks so much for all your help, you must have sent good thoughts her way! now i have some questions about the incubating temp....(next post, but i'll post it at the top of the forum, not on this thred).

Ray