Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well milkheads, this is all the photos of the micropholis I could locate. The colors are a little off due to digitizing dark slides and scanning old prints! I thought the female (2nd pic) I had in 1971 was more tangerine orange but she looks more of a red/orange with the ventral being much brighter than the dorsal due the black pigment obscurring its intensity. I am not sure if the specimens from Colombia and Venezuela have the same red/orange ground color or not. In the pics on the forum they look more of a true red.

Anyway the (1st pic), as close as I can remember, was given to me when Helmut Hansen (who has a snake-shop in Zurich Switzerland) was over here in the late 90s working on a book on Kingsnakes. At the time, it was the only book actually written in the German language on kingsnakes and not translated like Markel's book was. I may be wrong on that but I think that is what he said about it. He also had secured the first albino hondurans out of Eastern Europe after the wall went down. I believe he had heard about them but due to the lack of information available while the separation existed, he could not obtain them. Of course you know the rest of the story once they got to the United States and Western Europe many variations were produced.

The gentlemen from Germany that has the great web-site (great to keep up with the reading of German even if you never can speak it!) with great color photos - might be able to comment further if these indeed were the only albino hondurans produced from that F1 clutch. I recently saw a post on the Indigo forum from an Dry breeder in the Netherlands, that and albino eastern indigo had been produced in Europe 10 years ago from a F1 breeding of siblings. I guess the hobby has been around a long time in some of those countries!

The last photo is a bit off,it was the male Glen Slemmer obtained originally from Western Zoo along with the female (pic 2) that I was fortunate to secure.

Cheers
Bill Lamoreaux

Bill, great post. Neat nostalgia and super pics. Thanks for sharing those with everyone.

Here are a pair of Colombian L.t.micropholis that I got from Nathan Wells. They are a year old in these pics.

Scott Ballard

Hi Bill,

I guess you are talking about my web-site. There are not many people calling me a gentlemen , thanks. I also did an "english version", so nobody should be afraid to got to the link below, and please sign the guest book

First I have to say great pics you are sharing, thanks. Those L. t. micropholis are still on my "wanted list".

Now, your questions. The Thissen and Hansen book you are referring to is still the only one that has been written in German language and it is still a good source. I have send a few copies to friends in the states a few month ago. Are you still in contact with Helmut Hansen? Do you have an adress to contact him?

The albino gene in L. t. hondurensis popped up after the wall came down. There were many rumors that those albinos are not pure but from L. t. nelsoni or L. ruthveni.

AFAIK L. ruthveni has been proved out not to be responsible for L. t. hondurensis. Whatever, we will never find out and looking to the market it becomes harder and harder to see pure albino L. t. hondurensis if there ever has been one. I do see cocktails of Central American Milks in a lot of those "hondurensis".

So far,
Gerrit

Lampropeltis - Koenigsnattern

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http://www.lampropelten.de.vu

That is a nice pic of a micropholis! Is anyone breeding those in Europe that you know of. I know from reading accounts of herp expeditions and speaking with visiting Europeans that many times a pair of the reptiles were able to find their way to collections in Europe. I think this is the case with the Ecuadorian micropholis, some were taken to Germany and Switzerland.

I worked for the Dallas Zoo from 76 to 82 and during those years we bred many of the first kings, milksnakes,pygmy monitor (gilleni was my specialty, say hello to Dr. Horn for me), lizards etc., at least that we knew of, in the States.

We bred L.t.andesiana, in I believe 1977-78, out of Columbian origin animals. During those years we had a steady stream of visitors from many places worldwide but the majority were from Europe and especially Switzerland. Many guys like Helmut seemed to me to have stopped comming to collect in the summer after the 9-11 attacks,(have not heard of him or Peter Hiss/Tony Calmonte for quite a few years now, do keep up with Peter Kern on mountain rattlesnake reproduction). Do not have the address or phone number anymore for Helmut, you might check with Loui Porrus in Salt Lake for that information if he has it. Loui I believe was the US distributor and breeder of the albino hondurans/? when they first were introduced. I wondered why there were so many color patterns on those albinos morphs in comparison to say the albino nelsoni or sinaloans! I am not a great follower of the albino market so I have not paid a great deal of attention to them. I do remember seeing someone selling 75% albino alterna/ruthveni, they produced those by breeding in an albino ruthveni with a normal alterna I believe.

Anyway I am pretty much a "purest" and like to stick with breeding what "mother nature" spent so long perfecting in whatever little niche they evolved in. That is not to say that I don't like selective breeding for great color and pattern such is the case with grey-bands. You can't catch one as nice as you can purchase one from the breeders these days and they are local animals. We have been fortunate that we have a collectable population available on our side of the border, thus the serious collectors have recorded locality data along with a wealth of information on the natural history of many trans-pecos animals in addition to the grey-banded king.

This cannot be said of the tropical milks and the further south they are collected it seemed like the less data was available as to when,where, etc. Possibly the exception would be some of the groups out of Mexico that herpers went down and collected themselves and are well documented or other groups coming out of south america that were also well documented by the principal collector. Many others just "arrived" and you just had to take the importers and resellers "word" on subspecies and country of origin if you were that lucky.

After actively tracking down and trying to assemble a group of "pure" Python m.molurus, 30 years after they stoped importing them, I have come to appreciate the data and documentation that should track with every snake produced in captivity but mostly don't. Like you say, who will ever know the truth about the albino hondurans, we just know we like to look at them!

Thanks for the responce
Wlamore

Gerrit

Nice pic ! I love the face on that snake. What a cool patterns with the orange highlights. Isnt that your Black Milk ? Do you have any new or updated pics of your Black Milks ? They are quite unique and beautiful.

Keith
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Hi,

that's one of my gaigae, yes. Sorry, I did not drop a line to explain. I did not want to start another quiz.

Good post from your side, Bill. I like the passages about the "purism" and the good old days.

Keith, I'll try to do some new shots of that group and send you the link.

So far,
Gerrit

Lampropeltis - Koenigsnattern

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http://www.lampropelten.de.vu

Gerrit

You need to box up that snake and a equally nice female and send them to me

Keith
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Hi Keith,

let me think one minute if I'm willing to sell those to you.
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No I don't want .
But hey, I can put you on the list. I think, I'll breed those in 2007 or 2008.

Greets,
Gerrit
Lampropeltis - Koenigsnattern

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http://www.lampropelten.de.vu

n/t

Actually I lost contact with him in the 70s, I kind of drift in and out of the hobby as far as keeping in touch with people over the years. I always have kept the reptiles and breeding projects but just don't wheel and deal to get animals as in the old days. Just try to live a quiet life up here in the mountains (or more acurately at the bottom of the mountains!)
If I here anything, I will let you know.

Bill

I talked to Glenn Slemmer back in the early 1980's. He was still doing a lot of corns and I think lived in Vancover.

i used to get mice from him when he was at the cancer center in foxchase....used to run mice to pet stores for him...i think he made more off the mice then he did at his job.................

WOW great vintage pics ! What are the sizes of some of those snakes ? Thanks for sharing.

Keith
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Here are a couple of pictures I got from Stu Tennyson of some panamanian micropholis.