Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey everyone,
I got a story for u. I was cleaning my male retics cage the other night and he seemed fine. That was wed., thur. I wake up and go to plug in his heat light and i see something isnt alright with his mouth. After an quick inspection I see his left side of his upper lip is swollen and he has what looks like a growth on the center of his upper lip. This growth is big enough to touch the plexi as he moves around his cage irritating the hell out of it im sure.
I call up a vet called Animal Care Unlimited a vet ive been refered to by someone on the gchs forum on this site ( A very good choice by the way i thank everyone who help me there). I set up an appointment for the next day. Next day rolls around my buddy and i roll up to the vet. Ive never seen my snake so pissed. I explain to the vet assistant that hes very friendly and calm usually. When the time comes to move my retic wham the vet assistant locks on to the snakes head and pretty much tows him into the other room. im trying to hold the majority of his weight but hes fighting back. It ends up taking 4 people holding him down on the table and the head vet messing around in his mouth. I was kinda mad that i didnt get to watch the work being done. But basically the lip was infected. After removing all the "gunk" inside the swore she reveals a cavity that goes down to the bone. I get to help hold him down again while we give him an injection and the vet sexs him to make sure hes a he. I'm given 3 needles with anti-biotics and they send some of the infected material away for testing. I'm also given some Chlorex to make into a solution to clean his mouth out everyday, with instructions to not let the hole close up. "It needs to heal from the back to the front". I get to go back and get more drugs for him when the 3 needles run out which are to be given every 3 days.
So far the bill totals up to 160 but 20 of that was for probing. I still need to pay for more injections and i got one pissed retic. I had a few people come over the other day and he pretty much tossed them around while i cleaned his mouth out. I'm having a hard time recruting good help lol.
My main concern about this hole thing is.. well first his health but secondly his temper. I really dont want him to associate me with getting his head held down and getting poked with needles. Figures this would happen now instead of when he was a bit younger and easier to hold.

The cause of the infection is unknown i think he burnt his mouth near the light some how.
Sorry if i have a bunch of spelling errors.
thanks for reading

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1.0 American Alligator
0.0.1 Yellow anaconda
0.0.1 Ball Python
1.1 Retic (normal/super tiger)

First of all, you did what you had to do. The problem could have become a lot worse if you didn't take medical action.

That's a real concern about the retic associating you with restraint and pain. I had the same concern a while back when I was taking my adult Jamp to the vet every two weeks for two injections at a time to rid him of under-the-skin nematodes he got from a f/k rabbit. Each time I brought him to the vet I held his head while the vet shot him up.

That was a few months ago. Today he behaves as he always did, and he's never tried to bite.

You might try placing him in a big army duffel bag (the long one that opens on top) and only get his head and neck area out to hold and work with. Then the rest of his body will be secured by the bag -- but you'll still need to make sure he doesn't try to back out of the bag with the other end of his body.

Congratulations for doing what you're doing -- it is quite difficult to restrain a retic for a procedure, let alone get into his mouth and go to work! But it has to be done, and you are very fortunate to have helpers, even though they might not be the most qualified.

After the treatments are over and the area is healed, you'll just have to give him some time to settle down and have a couple good meals. Then resume normal interaction and handling as though nothing ever happened. Do that enough times and he'll probably un-learn the bad experience.

Good luck.

Bill

I agree with Bills post. giving injections is a two person process with a big retic. Get the head into a pillow case, holder keeps the case over the lower neck and the injection goes IM just off to the side of the spine with the second person doing the shot. it is too hard for one person to do.

as to the mouth cleaning, consider a two people and a restraining tube. Get the snake up onto the tube- just big enough for the entire snake to crawl through, and the "spotter" holds the lower neck from going further into the tube while lucky you gets to hold just behing the head with one hand and swag with the other. as always, check cage for areas that the animal may be jamming its head into along a seam or an edge and try to block/inhibit this action and check cage temps etc.

Winslow

I just had a similar problem with one of my male superdwarf retics and oral abscesses...not a lot of fun, I agree, but I imiagine it has to be a lot worse with a larger animal. One thing you might try that I found helpful is if you take your retic out of his cage and put him in a smallish plastic container that he can't move around in too much about fifteen minutes prior to giving him the injections. That way you can open up the container and restrain him behind the head without him being able to whip his body around too much. If you can get some kind soul to help hold him down, scraping out the pus and giving him the injection should be much easier that way.
Another thing to be careful of is that injectable antibiotics can sometimes give them these really ugly lesions at the injection site (Baytril, especially). If you notice that starting to happen, your vet might be able to prescribe you something different. Good luck.
Robert

lucky me my retic may still be small but she does not mind getting shots . unfortunately she had a couple of infections and has gone through many shots she's at a point where i can give her shots by myself with no problems takes them like a champ , and my big burm is the same way

You are correct in that Baytril, and also chloramphenicol, will many times cause tissue necrosis and scarring at the injection site. Some people have had fair success in diluting Baytril by drawing sterile water into the syringe after the initial dose has already been drawn. This lowers the concentration at the injection site without changing the total dose concentration. Apparently this lower concentration has helped in alleviating the frequency of tissue damage in some, but not all cases. The only drawback being having to work with a larger fluid volume. As you said, other antibiotics that are just as effective could be used to eliminate the problem when it exists. Cipro, amikacin, and the cephalosporin group of antibiotics to name a few, do not cause these issues at the site of injection.

Kelly

Hey guys i want to thank you for all the replys, I appriciate everything. The swelling of the entire lip is almost gone already. I'm quite happy with his healing. I havent had to remove very much infected material from the lip either. Ive been using a q-tip and a small set of tweezers. The "hole" is filling in very rapidly.
And ive found with 3 buddys cleaning his mouth isnt to big of a pain. I get to give my first injection tonight. The antibiotic is called FORTAZ. I didnt see this drug listed as one of the good or bad ones, Should i add a bit of water to the syringe?
Also ive had him out alot today soaking in the tub. His temperment hasnt really changed except for during the cleaning of his mouth. I'd be mad to if someone grabbed my head and held me down. On the plus side i havent had a single strike after releasing him or had to clean up any urine yet lets hope my luck continues. Thanks again guys i really appriciate it.
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1.0 American Alligator
0.0.1 Yellow anaconda
0.0.1 Ball Python
1.1 Retic (normal/super tiger)

Fortaz (ceftazidime) is a third generation cephalosporin antibiotic and will not cause tissue damage at the injection site. It is one of the safer antibiotics you can use on snakes if used properly. It also has a wider spectrum of bactericidal activity than Baytril. Good luck with him.

Kelly

Tonight went off without a hitch. The snake is putting up less and less of a fight. I'm very glad.

Thanks for putting my fears to rest kelly, your tied up with bob clark for being my hero lol.
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1.0 American Alligator
0.0.1 Yellow anaconda
0.0.1 Ball Python
1.1 Retic (normal/super tiger)

Well not in so many words, but I did go to clean out my retic's cage after a shed and noticed that his head at the snout was shaped funny. Upon closer inspection, I found an infected area much like the one that you described. Can you believe it?!?! So it's off to the vet we go. I also want to thank you for this post because it gave me a starting point in the discussion with the vet. Hopefully Samson will be back to his normal self soon.

Sorry LOL.... im glad these posts helped someone out besides me. Be sure to keep us updated, id be interested to she what your vet has to say. I hope all goes well for you.
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1.0 American Alligator
0.0.1 Yellow anaconda
0.0.1 Ball Python
1.1 Retic (normal/super tiger)

I got a call from animal care unlimited tonight and basically the news i got was bad. The culture got back from the lab and its a "something something" resistant to Fortaz. Which if u remember is the antibiotic ive been using. So I get to pick up some Amakasin (i guessed on the spelling)tomorrow. I've been told it is more concintrated than fortaz and was kinda worried about scarring, the guy i talked to on the phone says its totaly safe. Anyone used this? Is it pretty effective?
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1.0 American Alligator
0.0.1 Yellow anaconda
0.0.1 Ball Python
1.1 Retic (normal/super tiger)

Well, the mouth did the same thing that your retic's mouth did with the hole, but that seems to be almost completely gone now. We went for the last antibiotic shot today. His mouth is back to the normal shape and he has started eating again too, very fast recovery. Thanks again for this thread.

Good to hear that your retic is already acting normal. Do u by any chance remember what anti-biotic the vet was using. I've still got 6 more injections of amicasin to do. I'm just curious. Thanks

Oh yeah kelly i saw u had amicasin listed as a safe antibiotic in your first post thanks.
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1.0 American Alligator
0.0.1 Yellow anaconda
0.0.1 Ball Python
1.1 Retic (normal/super tiger)