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Jungle boas, or not jungle boas?

Atistaldi Jan 23, 2006 05:28 AM

Okay, without trying to sound like a complete idiot (which I'll probably fail miserably at anyhow.), what's the difference between a jungle boa and an abberant boa?

One is genetic one is not. Okay. I've seen quite a few boas that are jungles and that look perfectly like normal boas, except for the 3k+ price tag on them. How exactly, (other then buying one from a reputable breeder) do you tell them apart?

What exactly is to say that an abberant boa you find in a personal collection, or a pet store isn't a jungle as well? Is breeding solely the way to 'prove one out'? What qualities would I be looking for if I am trying to prove out my abberant to be truely a jungle and not just another pretty normal?

For instance, the abberant boas with entire body stripes. Couldn't the parents of such offspring be het stripe? (Of course then you breed to see if what you have *is* indeed genetic, obviously?)

Please and Thank You!

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Violette Garcia
www.shakahnsgrove.com

Replies (14)

drimes Jan 23, 2006 06:56 AM

If you do a search on this forum you will discover that this has been dicussed many times before.........
But to answer most of your questions, a JUNGLE BOA IS A PARTICULAR BLOOD LINE, not just pattern abberancies. Not only is it a pattern mutation but it is color as well. This is why you can have "normal" looking jungles, they have increased color. There also may be real normals in a litter with jungles that did not get the color or pattern mutation.
There are other genetic lines of abberant boas, both proven and unproven, so if you just pick up an abberant boa at your local pet store, you would need to raise it and breed it in order to find out if it is genetic. But it still should not be called a "Jungle" since that name has already been claimed for a particular blood line, it would simply be your line of abberant boas that you could call whatever you want(other than a Jungle)LOL.

Hope this helps,

Kathy

wetceal Jan 23, 2006 09:09 AM

The biggest difference between a Jungle Boa and an Aberrant Boa is a PROVEN SUPER form. Jungle boas have been proven to be co-dominant with a super form. Like Kathy mentioned, there are several different lines of aberrant boas out there. Some have been proven genetic - either directly inheritable or a line bred trait - and others have not.

Jungle Boas have been proven genetic, have been shown to be inherited co-dominantly, and have a visually different super form. That's going to be your main difference between a Jungle and an aberrant boa.

I wrote the following just yesterday for someone who emailed us with similar questions. I am copying and pasting my reply here...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Jungle morph can be somewhat confusing, especially if you aren't familiar with the morph. I would say that Jungles are probably one of the most variable Colombian Boa morphs right now. And for that reason, we absolutely love working with them. However, this can create a lot of confusion among breeders and hobbyists. When we look at Jungle Boas, you need to keep in mind that it not simply a pattern mutation but effects both pattern and color. A lot of people forget to look at coloration and only look at pattern.

Here are few things we look at when distinguishing Jungle Boas for normal boas :

1.) Pattern

This refers to not only aberrant patterns, but also the shape of normal saddles. Jungles can have connected saddles that sometimes creates zig-zag or "chain-link" patterns. This can be just two saddles connected or all the saddles connected down the back. This characteristic is random and variable. You can have a Jungle with absolutely no aberrancies produce extremely aberrant babies and vice versa.

You also need to look at the saddle shape. Even Jungle Boas that do not have any connected saddles will have regular saddles that are very characteristically different. I call these "cookie-cutter" shaped saddles. They tend to be more "squared-off" than regular saddles and can have either a circle "cut-out" in the middle of the saddle or two white/light colored ovals on either end of the saddle.

2.) Color

Our line of Jungles tends to turn very yellow as adults. This coloration is quite noticeable as babies but intensifies as the animal grows. I believe it reaches a peak when the animal gets to be about 3 feet long. Babies start out very bone/ivory colored. With each shed, the bone/ivory yellow intensifies and a spectacular colored Jungle will be almost neon yellow as a young adult. The intensity of the coloration will vary from individual to individual.

Color also comes into play in a almost "two-tone" effect. Our Jungles have a very high distinction between the dorsal coloration and the side coloration. You can think of it almost as if someone took a paint roller and rolled a different color down the animals back when you look at it compared to the sides. This is also variable and can be extreme in some individuals but only slightly apparent in others.

3.) Contrast

Jungle Boas are generally very high contrast animals. They usually have thick black outlines around their tail saddles. The overall color, especially the distinction between the dorsal and side coloration should display a high contrast animal.

4.) Elongated Tail Saddles

Jungle Boas should have elongated tail saddles compared to normal boas. This can be as extreme as a completely striped tail or as reduced as just one stretched tail saddle.

5.) The Eyes

I have noticed that many of our Jungle Boas tend to have pink or red colored eyes.

6.) Head Stripe/Pattern

This is something that I have heard others mention. What this refers to is an elongated, more distinguished head stripe on Jungles. I have noticed this on some of our babies. I've also noticed that some individuals have a circle pattern on their head similar to what you see on Arabesque Boas.

All the things mentioned above can not be taken alone. We look at all the characteristics I mention when determining Jungles from normals. You really can't just look at any one thing and say, "Okay, it's got it so it's a Jungle". Since Jungles are both pattern and coloration, you need to take all the characteristics into consideration. Some will be extreme and some will be subtle. Sometimes certain characteristics intensify with age.

The MOST important thing to consider is WHO you are buying your Jungle from. If you are buying it from a respected breeder who cares about not only their reputation but correctly representing their animal, then I wouldn't expect you to have any problems. I would find out what sort of guarantee the breeder offers (if any) and if they stand behind their animals.

I personally would not hesitate to buy a Jungle Boa from people like Gray Rushin/Jeff Gray, Mark Miller, Rick Stanulus, Jeremy Stone, and Pete Kahl just to name a few because I know these breeders will guarantee the genetics on the animal I purchase. I'm not saying that these are the only good breeders to buy from. I know there are many others but just be sure you do all your research before investing in the animal.

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As for your question about an aberrant boa being a Jungle - sure, it might be. However, I don't believe you should call it one or even hint at it until you can back up that statement. How do you do that? By breeding it and trying to prove it out! If you breed this pet store aberrant boa to a normal and produce approximately 50% "unknown aberrants" WITH color variations like you see in the Swedish Jungle lines and 50% normals, then you might have something.

BUT, you aren't quite done yet. You'll still need to breed two of these offspring to each other or one of the offspring back to the original "unproven aberrant". IF you get an even more extreme version (in both color and pattern) from this breeding then you *might* just have a super form.

BUT, you'll have to prove out that super by breeding it to an unrelated normal. If the breeding produces ALL "unproven aberrants" with intense color then it appears as though you might have a Jungle there.

HOWEVER, you still have one more step before you're done. I would then take one of these "unproven aberrants" which you've just proven out to be genetic with a super form and breed it to a Swedish line Jungle Boa. If you are able to produce Super Jungles from this breeding, then you can confirm that the gene you are working with is compatible (and therefore most likely the same gene) as the Swedish line of Jungle Boas.

It's a very long process that will take several years but I believe it's the only way to do it. So if you have an suspision that your aberrant boa just *might* be a Jungle (which is very possible because they do slip under the radar sometimes), then get to work and prove it out!

I hope this helps...

Thanks,
Celia
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Celia Chien
www.ExoticsByNature.com

2006 Boa Constrictor Morphs Calendar
2006 Ball Python Morphs Calendar

JTrott Jan 23, 2006 12:47 PM

Jason

Locolizard Jan 23, 2006 12:50 PM

...

ChrisGilbert Jan 23, 2006 02:05 PM

and no pictures were even included.
Although I am sure others wouldn't mind seeing a few nice pics of your Jungles! Your compairison pictures this past year proved a great asset.

wetceal Jan 23, 2006 11:08 PM

I don't have any recent comparison photos although now that you mention it, I will put it on my list for the next time I do photos! Here are few comparison photos I took in the past as well as a few updated Jungle Boa photos taken not so long ago.

Jungle Comparison Photos...

A baby Jungle Boa that was about 14 to 16 inches long at the time and an older Jungle that was about 2 feet long

See the "two-tone" color...?

And here are a couple of newer Jungle Boa photos. These are about 6 month old babies...

Check out how yellow this girl is already turning - she's only about 20 inches long right now. You can also see the red colored eyes...

This one doesn't have the color but look at the saddle shapes (squared off with the "cut outs"/"ovals" in them and the elongated tail saddles. Also look at the head pattern...

This one has a couple of aberrancies although it doesn't have the stand-out coloration others have. You can clearly see the high contrast/bold black outlining around the tail saddles as well.

No aberrancies whatsoever here but look at the contrast - high coloration and check out the saddle shapes on her...

Once again - no connected saddles but he's got everything else - look at the saddle shape, the patterns within the saddles, he's already showing nice ivory coloration, high contrast, red/pink eye color, and has elongated tail saddles...

Thanks,
Celia
-----
Celia Chien
www.ExoticsByNature.com

2006 Boa Constrictor Morphs Calendar
2006 Ball Python Morphs Calendar

ChrisGilbert Jan 24, 2006 01:51 PM

There are quiet a few there I have never seen. I really like the yellow jungles, to me the Color that some Jungles have is the most appealing!

The Motley and Jungle picture has me thinking again on which I like more!

bcijoe Jan 23, 2006 02:44 PM

Like, as soon as a 'Jungle' thread hits the forum, moderators have this setup so that the thread is auto detected, this response is auto-posted to it, and then the thread is locked!
lol

Well the last part is just to protect those sometimes innocent soles that are truly just trying to learn!

If its deleted, who is it helping?

Take care, Bci Joe
-----
Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

wetceal Jan 23, 2006 10:43 PM

That's exactly what I'm thinking! I think I'm going to save that write up though and use it for future email questions. I have a couple of emails like that and I edit each one to address specific questions so why not a Jungle Boa one?!

Thanks,
Celia

p.s. I meant to reply to your post last week...feel free to give us a call whenever you have a chance - (985) 893-0082. Hope to hear from you soon!
-----
Celia Chien
www.ExoticsByNature.com

2006 Boa Constrictor Morphs Calendar
2006 Ball Python Morphs Calendar

bcijoe Jan 24, 2006 07:42 AM

.
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

michaelburton Jan 23, 2006 11:40 PM

I think it would be a great help.
Michael Burton

drimes Jan 23, 2006 02:55 PM

Excellent post Celia. Every thing I wanted to say, but would have taken me 3 hours/days to type. . I glad somebody answered more eloquently than I could or did.

Kathy

Atistaldi Jan 23, 2006 10:38 PM

That was an amazing post, very informative and easy to understand.

I never thought proving out a trait could be so hard.

I appreciate the short breeders list as well. I don't have any larger/normal sized boas, but I had been considering purchasing a jungle as my first.
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Violette Garcia
www.shakahnsgrove.com

wetceal Jan 23, 2006 11:10 PM

Glad I could help! Good luck with your decision and if you do decide to go with a Jungle Boa, I think you'll really enjoy working with them!

Thanks,
Celia
-----
Celia Chien
www.ExoticsByNature.com

2006 Boa Constrictor Morphs Calendar
2006 Ball Python Morphs Calendar

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