Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm looking into getting a tortoise for the first time. I'm considering either a cherryhead, w. hermanns or russian tortise. Does anyone have a particular recommendation? Also, I only want one tortise to start off with...so would you recommend a male or female given the choice. Also, would it be OK to just have one...I don't want it to be too lonely.

I've kept and bred russians for several years now, and I think you would do well with a CB russian. Or try to adopt one from a herp society.

For info on russians you could buy the new book on care of russians by Ed Pirog (one of the forum Regulars, AKA: EJ).
Or go to www.russiantortoise.net

One russian is just fine by itself. Gender only matters if you decide to keep more than one. Never put two males together, and a male might harass a female during breeding. If you don't want eggs but want more than one tortoise, try two females of the same species. Greater chance of them getting along.

We have only one sulcata tortoise & in the 3 & 1/2 years since we took in the tortoise, I've never worried about her being lonely. She has her territory & she's content with it as is. They are loner animals to begin with but what I wanted to comment on is this:
I've noticed through all the tortoise groups I've joined that a lot people who are new to tortoise keeping get hooked because they're such wonderful pets. Then they start thinking that their tortoise will be happier with a friend so they go out & buy more tortoises not knowing if they have males or females, then next thing you know they're looking for help because the tortoises are fighting.
I've refused to take in other tortoises because I am not prepared to deal with those types of problems if they happen & well.. I'm not prepared to have a group of 100 plus lbs tortoises either lol.
Anyway I've seen people on the various groups not be able to stop the fighting & then not long after they're looking to get rid of their tortoises. That's sad for the tortoises.

Just wanted you to keep in mind that if you want more than one you need to be prepared to house them separately if being together does not work out.

As for recommendations on species, I would absolutely not recommend a sulcata for anyone who hasn't kept a tortoise before. Our girl has gained 46lbs since July 2002 when we took her in. If we didn't have half an acre of land fenced in for her there is no way we could keep her!
A Russian, Greek, hingeback, redfoot.. something smaller than sulcata would be best for a beginner pet.
Good luck choosing one.
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PHRatz

I couldn't agree with you less. I know this might(will) be construed and seen as 'fishing/baiting' but that is not the intent.

The reason that some people believe that the sulcata is a 'problem' is because this neat critter has shown that it is so adaptable to go form rare to a 'problem'. Stop and think about that. Is that a bad thing? The Sulcata is a great 'back yard' tortoise (article coming) and the animal never ceases to amaze me. The point... It's a great first pet. If the person buying one of these does not know how big it gets then they are definately living in a cave. That is only a problem if you happen on a sulcata who wants more... kinda like kids.

>>We have only one sulcata tortoise & in the 3 & 1/2 years since we took in the tortoise, I've never worried about her being lonely. She has her territory & she's content with it as is. They are loner animals to begin with but what I wanted to comment on is this:
>> I've noticed through all the tortoise groups I've joined that a lot people who are new to tortoise keeping get hooked because they're such wonderful pets. Then they start thinking that their tortoise will be happier with a friend so they go out & buy more tortoises not knowing if they have males or females, then next thing you know they're looking for help because the tortoises are fighting.
>>I've refused to take in other tortoises because I am not prepared to deal with those types of problems if they happen & well.. I'm not prepared to have a group of 100 plus lbs tortoises either lol.
>>Anyway I've seen people on the various groups not be able to stop the fighting & then not long after they're looking to get rid of their tortoises. That's sad for the tortoises.
>>
>> Just wanted you to keep in mind that if you want more than one you need to be prepared to house them separately if being together does not work out.
>>
>>As for recommendations on species, I would absolutely not recommend a sulcata for anyone who hasn't kept a tortoise before. Our girl has gained 46lbs since July 2002 when we took her in. If we didn't have half an acre of land fenced in for her there is no way we could keep her!
>>A Russian, Greek, hingeback, redfoot.. something smaller than sulcata would be best for a beginner pet.
>> Good luck choosing one.
>>-----
>>PHRatz
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

>>The reason that some people believe that the sulcata is a 'problem' is because this neat critter has shown that it is so adaptable to go form rare to a 'problem'. Stop and think about that. Is that a bad thing? The Sulcata is a great 'back yard' tortoise (article coming) and the animal never ceases to amaze me. The point... It's a great first pet. If the person buying one of these does not know how big it gets then they are definately living in a cave. That is only a problem if you happen on a sulcata who wants more... kinda like kids.

Ed I don't have a problem with you having a different opinion from mine. Isn't that what discussion is all about? It'd be pretty dull if we all agreed all the time.

I should've stated that IMO a sulcata isn't the best choice for most people. I do know that some people can do this & can handle any potential problems that may arise so I didn't really mean to make a sweeping statement that NO people should ever get one as a first time tortoise.. I just want people to be aware & prepared before they make the plunge.

As a first time tortoise a sulcata can work out...the truth is our sulcata is our first tortoise and it's working out. Years of experience with turtles was a big help in deciding to keep her. She's been wonderful, we adore her but how we came into possession of her happened because someone else threw her away.

We live in a desert where the landscape is similar to her native land. We have room for her, she has plenty of area to roam freely. We knew what we were getting into but it still just galls me that someone else dumped her in the middle of nowhere probably because she'd gotten too big. I'll never know exactly why she was dumped but her size is my guess.
What breaks my heart is to see all these people join groups, who don't seem to know what they're getting into. I am talking about private tortoise groups that I've joined not this Kingsnake forum.

I've seen so many who've bought hatchlings while living in a cold northern state, sometimes in an apartment, then it grows & needs to stay outside or needs a basement or something now that it's outgrown it's tortoise table, but uh oh they can't handle the housing situation for the tortoise or the fighting if they've gotten more than one. Next thing you know they're asking for someone to take it off their hands.

So actually I do wonder sometimes if these particular people do live in a cave.
I know that there are successful keepers in cold states & that's great, I'm glad they can do this. I'm not saying that nobody should have one but it's really something to mull over for a while before you decide to do it.

In 2005 I visited both the Austin TX Zoo & the Abilene TX Zoo. Both of them have a lot of not so great looking sulcata tortoises because they took them in from people who couldn't handle having them anymore.
I just wish that all people would really give it a lot of thought before they decide to bring one home. If you can't take care of a 100-150 to maybe 200 lb tortoise, then a sulcata is not for you. For many many people it isn't the best choice for a first time tortoise but it can work out for some, we are living proof of that.

On the plus side, like you said they are awesome creatures and ours never ceases to amaze me. She's so very intelligent, I wouldn't give her up for anything in the world.
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PHRatz

I agree with EJ in part because sulcatas are such an impressive
and responsive animal. They live a long time and are hardy and adaptable as well.
But that PH makes some excellent points can't be denied either. There are WAY TOO MANY sulcata out there living in conditions that will never meet their demands. The fact is that many, if not most of the people who buy cute hatchlings cannot comprehend the actual space needed to properly care for an adult.
I believe that sulcatas have become the Burmese python of the turtle world. They are wonderful and rewarding for those who can provide for them but a burden and 'castoff' for those who can't. Or won't.
So the end result is hundreds of these great tortoises being purchased each year that have no future. But there are many that will be cared for properly and that will live a very long time.
So the question of whether a 'first timer' should get one isn't as important as 'will that first timer be a dedicated keeper?'

>>>> I believe that sulcatas have become the Burmese python of the turtle world. They are wonderful and rewarding for those who can provide for them but a burden and 'castoff' for those who can't. Or won't.
>>So the end result is hundreds of these great tortoises being purchased each year that have no future.

I agree with that, they are fast becoming one of the most dumped reptiles. Ours is such a sweet animal I can't imagine why anyone thought it was a good idea to throw her away & abuse her.

After she got here we started running into people who've told us "So & so person I know has one too, he/she found it out in the country, found it on a road, found it here or there."
I know of several people who have them because they were found. I only know one person who has them on purpose because he bought them. I'm sure there are more like him but so far he's the only one I know.

The pet store in another town where I've found that they do carry the 40 gallon breeder tanks also sells sulcata tortoises.. so I kind of think these locally thrown away tortoises probably came from that store.
Those I've turned down were also found but I got the people who found them in touch with my vet who was able to take them in, so apparently my personal experience with them makes me look at this in a different way than other people would.
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PHRatz

You're going to have good keepers and bad as you do in any field or hobby.

Some of the bad keepers are that way by design and some are that way through ignorance.

All we can do is provide the information and hope they use it which will not always be the case.

My point here is that because the tortoise can be a problem does not mean that it always will be.

Our experience definately gives us a different view but we still have to think about that 'first' tortoise and the feeling it produced.

I don't have a problem giving ample warning. It's the heavy handed approach that I'll rise up to... especially when I read, don't, never...

I don't think any of these posts are right or wrong but all have valid points given from different perspectives which I think the way a msg board should be. (but that's my opinion)

>>>>>> I believe that sulcatas have become the Burmese python of the turtle world. They are wonderful and rewarding for those who can provide for them but a burden and 'castoff' for those who can't. Or won't.
>>>>So the end result is hundreds of these great tortoises being purchased each year that have no future.
>>
>>I agree with that, they are fast becoming one of the most dumped reptiles. Ours is such a sweet animal I can't imagine why anyone thought it was a good idea to throw her away & abuse her.
>>
>>After she got here we started running into people who've told us "So & so person I know has one too, he/she found it out in the country, found it on a road, found it here or there."
>>I know of several people who have them because they were found. I only know one person who has them on purpose because he bought them. I'm sure there are more like him but so far he's the only one I know.
>>
>> The pet store in another town where I've found that they do carry the 40 gallon breeder tanks also sells sulcata tortoises.. so I kind of think these locally thrown away tortoises probably came from that store.
>> Those I've turned down were also found but I got the people who found them in touch with my vet who was able to take them in, so apparently my personal experience with them makes me look at this in a different way than other people would.
>>-----
>>PHRatz
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

>>>I don't think any of these posts are right or wrong but all have valid points given from different perspectives which I think the way a msg board should be. (but that's my opinion)

I agree with you 100% on that statement.
Discussion, different opinions are the things that make a message board become a place that I like to visit.
We can all disagree at times but we can all learn something too.
For me that's what it's all about.
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PHRatz