Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have 2 red tail boas, and a 9 month old BP that all eat rats every week. It has become too expensive to feed them all so i have decided to breed my own rats. I have done extensive research, but the one thing that was unsaid was how often to clean out the cage. Should i spot clean it every day or once a week, or what? Please somebody tell me. Appreciate any info youve got.

Jason

Have you thought of ordering frozen? They are much cheaper than a pet store, even with shipping. I have heard that rats smell terrible, but I do not have any myself. Derek

I used to breed mice for this same reason. I thought that it would be cost effective for me as well since I was only doing it on a small scale. Well, turns out I was wrong. Between the time that I would by the mice and they would produce babies and then I'd have to lett these grow a little bit, I was spending more on mouse food than I really expected. Also the spare room where they were kept smelled horrible, even with me doing a complete cleaning every week. Then lets also not forget the time spent doing all of this work. I was cleaning mouse cages, feeding, ans watering them more than I was the snakes...this was just unacceptable to me because my time is better spent looking after my snakes. So I did a little cost analysis and it was actually costing me 4 times more to buy and raise my own mice than to buy them frozen. I have to admit, getting everything to switch to frozen can be a bit of a chore when you have some fussy snakes like hatchling brazilian rainbow boas or hatchling hogs, but in the end it is definitely worth it.

There is no such thing as "spot" cleaning rat cages. They produce large quantities of very odiferous urine. If you are seriously considering breeding rats in your house, you will find your self needing to do a complete cleaning at least once a week, if not more often.

As hisstry says, you will find yourself spending three times as much effort and time taking care of rodents as you do your snakes.

It really is cheaper/easier to just buy frozen rodents for a few snakes. If you have 50 snakes, it might be worth it financially, but not timewise. I've tried it both ways and frozen is the way to go. Buy a small chest freezer and load it up with rats, 6 months worth at a time and you will laugh about the idea of raising your own.

Boas readily eat f/t rodents.
-----
Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

The first time I ordered a six month supply of f/t rodents for my 20 snakes of various sizes, I saved enough over retail to more than cover the cost of the chest freezer to keep them in. That was seven years ago, and the freezer still accomodates f/t rodents for approx. 30 snakes.

I also bred rodents for a short while. Aside from the mess and the fuss and the smell, all it takes is one or two psycho-offspring-munching mama rats to really mess up your big plan--sending you back to the petstore to supplement. Snake keeping is so much more enjoyable when the food items arrive dead and ready to thaw and serve!

I used to breed small scale.It was fun but also alot of work.I dont anymore cause its cheaper/easier to buy frozen.I kept my breeder (only 3-4)females in a large 3x2ft cage, male seperate in a smaller cage and weaned litters went into rubbermaid tubs till they were big enough to be put down.
Males stink and need to be changed alot more often but you only need one good healthy male and he should be able to keep up no problem.

the litters kept in the tubs stunk also if not changed more often(sometimes I would have up to 18 or more in it)..If you have boas then you will probably have to let your weanlings grow pretty large before you put them down and that can take a few months.Larger rats more stink and more changes..
I dont think I did it the most efficient way but my females were kinda like pets.
-----

>>I have 2 red tail boas, and a 9 month old BP that all eat rats every week. It has become too expensive to feed them all so i have decided to breed my own rats. I have done extensive research, but the one thing that was unsaid was how often to clean out the cage. Should i spot clean it every day or once a week, or what? Please somebody tell me. Appreciate any info youve got.
>>
>>Jason

I think you will find for that number and size of snakes it isn't worth it. That and I always say to people that if they don't like mice / rats than don't get them just to try to save money. You will hate it. I find it worth it especially when I need fistfulls of pinkie mice or rats for babies. I have a small scale (I consider) group of 5-9 groups of mice and and 4-7 groups of rats. Each group with 1.3-1.8 in it. Variation accounts for time of year and need. I can keep all my beasts well fed and sell off enough extras to pay for the rodent's upkeep most of the year. The other huge advantage is having the size you want when you need it.
-----
Sonya

Haven't we warned you about tampering with the structure of a chaotic system?
Mrs. Neutron

Thanks everybody for your input. I appreciate all you had to say.

jason

The answer to your question is, empty the substrate and clean the enclosures twice a week.

While I can't speak on ball pythons, I do know that boas relish frozen/thawed rats with gusto. Frozen rats are much cheaper than store-bought. Not as cheap as raising your own, but raising your own requires alot of work, time and the inital expense of quality caging to do it right.

We ran into the same problem only we have 50 ball pythons and a dozen colubrids. We were spending $150.00 per week to feed them all. We decided to breed our own and it has saved alot of money. The drawback as you have found is that the rodent tubs need to be cleaned at least once a week. We try to clean them every 4 days if possible. Ours are out in our garage so we dont have to smell them , but I will tell you that if you clean them every 4 days, they wont smell much at all. I have helped another breeder set up her own rodent colony inside her house and she says that if she cleans them every 4 days her house does not smell. It is a trade off. You either spend the money or you spend the time cleaning.

Ron
NTRB

I used to have several rats not for feeders this was before I got my boas but I changed the tanks and cleaned them 1 to 2 times a week if that helps you at all.

I used to raise rats and mice but it only comes cost effective if you have about 20-30 snakes (depends on size) because you usually need to bulk buy everything like cheap dog food w/out the red dye that's poisonous and like 17% or less protein bulk bags of Cedar (This helps keep parasites off the rodents but is toxic to reptiles if they eat a chip/shaving [so wipe off the substrate on the rodent if there is any on it])like 20-40lb bags. Raising rodents is a pain and takes time and need a shed/barn/garage for them because the ammonia is horrible. I found it useful to have a small amount of rodents to help when your breeder/petstore/ect is out. I would think you could have a Rat Trio would be useful occasionally. Anyways, just to make it clear, it sucks having rodents!
Hope you well
Sincerely,
Mark V. Leppin

I have 18 colonies of rats. Each with 1 male and 4 females. I keep them in a 18'x20' insulated and heated shed. I run an 80cfm exhaust fan 24-7. It doesn't smell to bad, and I only clean every week and a half to two weeks. Cleaning and care is simple. My 10 year old feeds and waters them everyday. My 13 year old cleans cages. Once the kids are gone I will have to find some young kids that wants to make $20 a week for some fun work. Im not gonna do it. Like others have said, I would rather be spending the time with my snakes. I only go in there when Im needing to feed snakes or sale some rats. I sale enough to cover the cost of feed and bedding, so my collection of 50+ snakes eats for free. I couldn't think of a cheaper way then that. But if I only had 3 or 4 snakes, it wouldn't be worth it.
-----

how any snakes do you have to feed. Not sure where the break even point is but I am way past it.

I currently have about 60 snakes of various sizes, about 30 are hatchling BRB's. You can read my closer for details on the collection.

Currently I go through about 30 hopper mice, and 10 - 15 rats / week. Using the rodentpro website and optomizing my order to about 26 weeks, 800 hoppers and 365 rats would 100% fill 4 boxes. Grand total would be $1029 shipped greyhound or $1387 shipped fedex.

I raise my own feeders and spent about $1100 last year for rodent blocks and pine shavings. Or about $550 for 6 months.

I also sell some surplus to friends, in 6 months, about $200 worth.

For caging/care, About a year ago I switched from individual tanks to two used comercial style racks. 24 tubs each, cost me $2000 for the pair. They have month long food hoppers (closer to 2 months), gravity fed water system. I clean cages and fill the water buckets weekly. About 2 hours. Only an hour when my daughter helps me.

My breeder males each have their own tub and the females get cycled through. That way I control the production rate. Seems easy to me. Rarely do I have a psycho mom and when I do, she gets moved to the front of the snake snack line.

Bottom line, first year with the new racks I lost a little due to the cost of the racks. Now my ongoing net costs are about a third of frozen. and when I need a specific size, poof there it is. Another time saver is feeding F/K, I don't have to warm up any food. Just grab, whack and feed. I rarely throw out a feeder because nobody will eat it. I save my best eaters for last.
-----
Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
1.0 BCI albino het stripe
1.0 BCI salmon hypo
0.1 BCI ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats