Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My friend picked up some granite balls that the seller claimed were genetic.

he asked me what I thought, and I told him for $25/per they are awsome reguardless.

anyway I started thinking about the ebony ball.

Was there just one produced(by amir if i remember correctly?) ??

was it a "special" yellow belly??

It seems there are tons of yellow bellies and claimed genetic granites out there. I thought we would have seen more of these awsome animals.

anyway, does anyone have a recent pic of the/a ebony, I would love to see how they age.

thanks for reading
TomChambers

Graziani also has an Ebony - although theirs is a WC and they just beleived it to be melanistic granite. Most of the offspring if I remember correctly were sold off as normals - until Amir produced his Ebony - then they were able to take a closer look at the remaining offspring and found that they had produced a Pastel Yellowbelly from their Ebony x pastel. It looks quite a bit more granitie than Amirs Ebony - but appears to be Yellowbelly x granite also. Last time I looked it was on Grazianis web site if you are interested.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

11.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

yeah I've seen the pics on his site, but it doesn't appear to be the same as Amirs snake.

we'll just have to wait till he has had more time prove it out I guess.

TomChambers

Hey Tom ,

Tom Chambers eh? Did you ever play for the Seattle SuperSonics?? LOL , just wondering...

Thanks

Derek Federico

yup, one step in from the three point line was my money shot.

just kidding, thats not me.

TomChambers

AMir produced it............everything else is a "looks like" type of snake. Grazianis is a neat snake........which I have seen in person...and compared to Amirs ebony..and it is not the same as Amirs snake.

Amirs was made from a Regular yellowbelly(there is no such thing as a "special y.b."......bred to a granite that AMir did in fact prove genetic.

Best of luck in your friends breedings.

Jared -

Why wouldn't the Graziani ebony be an ebony - if the offspring are granites and yellowbellies? If it's the same genetic make up it is what it is.

Wouldn't that be like saying a WC ivory isn't an ivory even if the offspring are yellowbellies.

Doesn't make sense to me.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

11.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

Where are pics of the offspring from the Graziani animal.......? Has he produced Ebonies from that animal to anythign else? Where does it say that he bred it and produced Yellowbellies and granites from that animal bred to a normal?

This was taken from Greg's page on the "ebony":

"That’s right, we had already sold the three Wild Type offspring from the clutch. So we never paid attention to see if they were Granites or Yellow Bellies. But we did get lucky! It appears that we did produce one Pastel Yellow Belly which we will be breeding back to our Ebony in 2006."

How is a big breeder.......One of the first big breeders for that matter going to miss what the offspring from any clutch are? Come on.......get with it........How is he not going to realize that he either hatched a Yellowbelly or a granite......both morphs of which have been around since well before 2003 (Y.B. have been in collections since early 90's), and granites have been imported for just as long.

Besides having compared Amirs Ebony to Gregs Striped Granite(which is what it is), there is NO similarity between the 2 except for the dark appearence......If you have never seen Airs snakes or gregs snake up close then how can you comment on them being the same.......because someone says so?

If you want to say that Amirs Ebony is similar to another morph.....it would be the SUper Stripe Yellowbellies. They have IDENTICAL patterning, IDENTICAL striping, they are just different color phases of a VERY similar morph.....the only difference between these two are the mothers, AMirs is a granite, and mine is not.

Jared

This is the way I see it

I agree that it looks like a hypermelanistic granite - but a hypermelanistic granite that produces Yellowbellies? Now come on how many of those do you think are floating around out there? Greg does say that a pastel yellowbelly was produced from that animal bred to a pastel so we know it at least carries the YB gene (and it looks very evident that it also carries the Granite gene). Maybe the granite gene just didn't come out in that one breeding overshadowed by the YB and the the Pastel genes? Can you completely rule out the possiblity? Just as there are different looking versions of the same morphs whos to say that the Graziani's Ebony (Yellowbelly making hypermelanistic granite) isn't one?
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

11.42.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.1.0 Bredls Python (Smurfette)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.0 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

It all comes down to who wil lmake more of them.........and in my opinion that snake wont make Ebonies & or Yellowbellies...even if Greg said it did.........How can he have overlooked a yellowbelly......expecially when there has been SOOO much controvesy over them?

No Offense to Greg..........Im not dissing you or your snake...Im just stating what I believe.

My $.02

There is more then 1 ebony. I have seen Amirs & Bhb. But when you breed yellowbelly to granite and it produces a snake the same looking as Amirs how can you say its not an ebony? I dont think every Ebony will look the same just as every Mojave looks little diffrent? Not trying to stir the pot but just because Gregs dont look identicle it still came from granite x yb! But to say there is only one Ebony is crazy when Greg and Brian both have them! Good luck guys!

actually Greg's didn't come from a granite and yb, it was wild caught. It has supposedly produced granites and yellowbellies when bred and a pastel yellowbelly but no ebony's. It has also produced wild-type snakes that were not different enough to a big breeder to be noticed. I've seen alot of yellowbellies in person and could not miss one in a clutch of normal babies. Not trying to say anyone is lying because when you hatch out hundreds of babies each year i guess it could be possible to miss one or two barely morph snakes. Basically we all have yellow-bellies, we all have granites, we will all produce ebony's at one point, now Jared show us the mother for the YB super stripe, lol. we need to know what stripes to look for
Josh Hutto
JKReptiles

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2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
0.1 High Contrast Albino (Gulf Coast)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, Gulf Coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(Gulf Coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (Gulf Coast line)
0.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
1.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

IT was wild caught.........so no claim of paternal lineage is possible.

Then I am sorry if thats the case but I read another post saying it was from granite to yb , but am I right in saying Brian from BHB has one also. I think he was calling his the sunset? I could be wrong again...... If so I am sorry

I think Brian was calling his "Camo" not "Sunset" ...............too many morphs to keep up with
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swbore@earthlink.net

Was produced by breeding to chocolates together, a morph that Brian has proved to be co-dom, the Camo is suppose to be the super chocolate.. It does have similar trais to Admirs, but its not genetically the same. Both are amazing looking animals in person and in pics.
Kim
NARC Reptiles

i'm sure of it,yellow bellies make alot of the other morths look even better.not to mention they throw Ivoreys ,eboneys,super stripe what ever it could go on and on,just thought i'd jump in on this,,!!
Greg VanZweden

http://www.geocities.com/vanzwedensreptiles/

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Forever Trust in what we are,and nothing else Matters

I have seen pics of Greg's snake, but it looked way different than Amir's to me.

I meant "special" as in it was a yellow belly that might have had something else going on as well.
like you said the mother of your super stripes had something special going on.

anyway, thanks for clearing that up for me, great pic, all three animals are outstanding.

TomChambers