Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Click for ZooMed
jobi Jan 30, 2006 12:04 PM

Are we really helping when we supplement our uromastyxs foods?
According to every book IV reed and all keepers IV spoken with, supplements are mandatory, without them uromastyx fail in captivity.
An other presumed mandatory part of husbandry is the no water rule! And also glass tank and wormers to name a few. I think part of the responsibility a keeper has is to question and investigate all aspect of husbandry, and also to share idea and opinions.

This past year I have tried to apply the above rules to a total of 8 WC ornatus 8 WC Mali’s 12 WC Saharans, in fact I was sticking to these rules thinking they where proved and tested in regards to uromastyx husbandry. A few months into acclimation I realised my new animals where failing and changes had to be don pronto, but how and witch changes? The above rules are so implemented that no matter where you seek help you hit the same wall over and over again, I am surrounded by animal professionals, these peoples have been part of my life for 30 years and I have nothing but respect for them, however all I got was (you need UVB-UVA) (you need calcium-supplements) (they need to be kept dry) (don’t give them water) (keep them separated) (don’t feed them insects) (you need to de-worm them) (keep them hot) these guidance given by the most competent peoples in this industry are all questionable, they all have variables that can lead to the death of my uromastyx, but also can be attributed to the successful husbandry or acclimation. I feel the later is most often offered to justify success, however is it really the case? what and how is it determined? Have anyone analysed the calcium levels in blood to actually justify supplements? NO! First mineral levels in blood aren’t stable; they fluctuate with metabolism giving inaccurate readings after reading. Also keepers my self included have shown that UV's are not involved in calcium intake in reptiles, doesn’t mater witch species or what habitat it comes from.

Here are my observations with my captives, I leave it up to you to agree or disagree with this, my objective is to get information on the move and new ideas from keepers.

4 ornated became paralysed (back legs) stopping supplements and offering standing water cured the situation.
2 Mali’s started twitching digits a sing of MBD stopping supplements and offering standing water cured this symptom.
All uromastyx at one time or an other have been seen drinking water, I feel water has a vital role in establishing uromastyx, some adult imports may take months to start feeding, without water they who’d die. I also think water keeps parasites outbreak in check, a dehydrated uromastyx is quickly overwhelm with parasites; water might be most important in minerals distribution throughout the organism and must be considered of vital importance in proper renal function. In acclimating uromastyx NTL 60-70f temperatures must be avoided as these lower temps promote parasitism, uromastyx will flush these parasites if given the opportunity to keep there metabolism in function.

When provided with the right tools uromastyx acclimate easily without any intervention from us, they feed when conditions are right (heat, water, habitat, stress) they get the most out of any food and if needed will seek minerals from habitat. This female roles stones in her mouth before having a drink, a behaviour that says a lot!

Pleas feel free to ask any questions, I have so much to learn about uromastyx husbandry, any conversation is bond to teach me something.

Replies (3)

jeune18 Jan 30, 2006 03:27 PM

well, i don't know about other people on this forum but i don't have access to a lab to monitor the calcium levels in blood. even if someone could say to us you need XXX amount of calcium at all times, how would the average joe be able to monitor that?

i also don't think anyone says to NEVER offer water. they usually just say not to leave it in the tank. i always tell people who just got a new animal to give it a soak, water is vital to living. most of us just say they get enough water through their veggies, if they are eating. right now my malis aren't eating and i give them water from a syringe everyday

as for supplements, i think when you get a new lizard, especially a wild caught one, it is good to give it supplements, however over time, i think you could cut down on the amount. honestly i give my uros pellets that have vitamins in them and let them deal with the intake because most of mine won't eat food that is dusted with calcium or vitamins. they have a dish and can eat them when they want. i still offer dusted greens every once in a while, but they usually just go to waste

maybe i misunderstood this but are you saying no lizard needs UV lights?
UV has been debated in the uro world but i know of one specie that has to have it, the collared lizard. some people do the D3 thing but i give all of my collareds UVB. i went home christmas 2004 and didn't have a UVB light with me. i thought they would be ok for the month i was home. within two weeks, my female was twitching her toes like crazy. i was giving them calcium but once i got the light, a couple days later her toes were better. females especially need calcium if they are laying or are going to be laying eggs. also those UVBs do something for the collareds. all of mine, male and female, will get right up next to the uvb light, which doesn't produce any significant amount of heat at where they sit and they just sit there and bask.

oh well those are my opinions
-----
vonnie
***The scientific theory I like best is that the rings of Saturn are composed entirely of lost airline luggage.
— Mark Russell***

snake_girl85 Jan 30, 2006 06:42 PM

I recently discovered/learned something interesting that I'd never thought of before. I've always assumed that it was better to give UVB rather than D3 supplements because it was too easy to OD the animal and it was better to let their bodies to their thing. But a friend recently pointed out that (in his opinion anyway) there is no way D3 supplements can simulate natural conditions that UV light provides, because in one instance it is absorbed, and in the other it is taken it and digested. Stomach acid and digestion do strange things, and when you think about it, the vitamin will not be utilized in the same fashion as it would through absorption, and it would be so modified it would be in a completely different form once it arrived at it's destination. Does that make any sense? I just thought I'd toss it out there as it seemed interesting to me.
-----
1.0 RES, Spunky
1.0 African mud turtle (P. castaneus), "Francois the Tortois"
1.0.1 Mali Uromastyx, Ajani, Guban(Goober)
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa, Nico
0.0.1 Northern Blue Tongue Skink, Owajabi(Jabi)
3.1 Cats
1/2.0 rabbit (friend and I went 50/50)
0.1 Gerbils
1.0 Betta, Nigel

jobi Jan 30, 2006 08:01 PM

(( Most of us just say they get enough water through their veggies, if they are eating.))

I am sure they get some fluids from food, however I dough it can totally replace water?

((as for supplements, I think when you get a new lizard, especially a wild caught one, it is good to give it supplements))

Not sure about this! Most WC uromastyx are in no condition for there kidneys to process excess minerals, it’s probably better to keep them hydrated until regular feeding before any supplements (if supplements needed?)

((maybe i misunderstood this but are you saying no lizard needs UV lights?))

I have raised many species including sungazers, amevias, horny toad, collared and many more sun loving reptiles without UV's ever!
Heat seems to be responsible for calcium metabolism, different species use heat in deferent ways. most often reptiles are to stresses to metabolise properly.

Site Tools