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I am treating an adult(5 year old) eastern massasauga rattlesnake(350gms) for a bacterial respiratory infection. Rather than giving i.m. injections, I've taken the route of administering it orally via a nebulizer. In general this seems a much better way of administering the dose, but I am worried about the snake getting the full benefit of the treatment(although the snake appears to be improving).

Has anyone out there treated sick snakes with a nebulizer? If so, have you simply affixed the nebulizer to a cutout opening in the holding (my case, a clear sterilite) box or was the nebulizer "T" addixed to a plexiglass tube and the snake allowed to receive the treatment in the tube? I'm trying to determine the most effective method of treatment. The box appears to work fine, and trap the vapors, but I'm apprehensive that at the dosage(increased for nebulization therapy) is still somewhat low.

None the less, there is a lot less stress on the snake and keeper with this method of treatment.

Thanks
Matt

hey matt,

I have not done it with hot snakes but have done it several times with a few boeleni with resp. infections. We used two methods both successfully. The first being restricting the snake to it's nesting chamber (in this case a 55 gal trash can, it was a 9ft boeleni) and then attaching the hose to the opening and just filling the chamber. This seemed to work ok...

We also used crucible tongs and held the hose and basically followed the animals head around making sure to maximize exposure. I liked this method better as I was more confident in the exposure to treatment.

Both methods were slow, time consuming, but they worked well.

Hope that helps,
-Ruston

.

Matt, I have used one before but I have found that in severely affected individuals, antibiotics is the best course of action (we now use Fortaz for most RI problems; great stuff and very effective with low side affect rates). In mild cases, simply cranking humidity with higher than average heat (w/in reason) will do the trick. You may want to try the nebulizer for a week or so and monitor but if it appears to be a severe RI, don't wait; especially with eastern 'saugas. Good luck and keep us posted. Rob BTW...when I used the nebulizer, I just affixed it to a hole that was cut into the holding container.

>>I am treating an adult(5 year old) eastern massasauga rattlesnake(350gms) for a bacterial respiratory infection. Rather than giving i.m. injections, I've taken the route of administering it orally via a nebulizer. In general this seems a much better way of administering the dose, but I am worried about the snake getting the full benefit of the treatment(although the snake appears to be improving).
>>
>>Has anyone out there treated sick snakes with a nebulizer? If so, have you simply affixed the nebulizer to a cutout opening in the holding (my case, a clear sterilite) box or was the nebulizer "T" addixed to a plexiglass tube and the snake allowed to receive the treatment in the tube? I'm trying to determine the most effective method of treatment. The box appears to work fine, and trap the vapors, but I'm apprehensive that at the dosage(increased for nebulization therapy) is still somewhat low.
>>
>>None the less, there is a lot less stress on the snake and keeper with this method of treatment.
>>
>>Thanks
>>Matt
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

If you have a serious issue I agree injectable is the quickest solution. We used nebulizer for treatment of more long term chronic repeated resp. treatment for a two M.boeleni with good results. This process took a several weeks (I think up to 6 weeks). We eventually starting using it 2 to 3 times a year with a boeleni that had apparently serious scared lungs from years of repeated problems. The animal sounded horrible untill we started the treatments.

-Ruston

Ruston,
I believe also, you guy's bred the Boelens, correct?

Randal

we got a series of eggs, some infertile, some fertile but never successfully hatched any out. We currently do not have any as we had a fight with some strain of TB that seemed to affect several of our boeleni. I hope to work with them again.

-Ruston

Ruston....I believe that what works for Boelens is the same for Apadora. Mine seem to get RIs every year. I cured my male this year, but the female sems to have a scond hit of it. Next year I'm going to fix their cages up for higher humity. I know Boelens need it because of the altitude they live at, but I think Apadoras are found at overlapping altitudes. I think there's still a lot of work to be done on the two species, and that they are much more closely related than previously thought. I wonder if there's any predation on Boelens by Apadora....they do eat Scrubs, and I think the Apadoras do get larger than Boelens.
I tried a makeshift Neb last year, but ended up just doing injections. Baytril worked this year on the male, (both are 12', female is 36lbs) but I think it's time to change for the female.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

Instead of hots, it was because a guy thought it would be easier to mass treat his collection of balls this way. The issues are the same however...

1)An obvious pro to this method is the lack of stress.

2)An obvious con to this method is the inability to control dosage.

The inconclusion derived was that this was all-in-all an ineffective method from a medical point of view, however, it may have a place in diseased animals (such as hots) where immediate, specific, and effecient action is less necessary. In summary, it's better than just raising the temps, but it's not the same as properly dosed injectables/orals. (Note I use oral differently than you, nebulization is not considered oral). Thus, if this is a moderate to severe case of RI, then skip the nebulization and go the conclusive route.

If you indeed decide at any point to follow through with injectables (a non-eating snake perhaps), perhaps ask the vet to choose one that is needed once daily, every 2 days, or even every 3 days, versus two to three times daily. It cannot be ignored that stress slows the healing process.

Ian

Do you have a link? I don't quite understand, why he needed to mass treat, unless the entire collection was infected, at which point, it was probably quite severe and too late for using this treatment method. Also, you can't really 'mass treat', as the animal needs to be in a relatively small container for the treatment to be effective.

My vet, in fact, told me to double the dosage for nebulization, from what you normally use for injection.

In my case, its not that severe, b/c I caught it right away and didn't let it progress. This snake is too valuable (personally) for me to let it progress.

MCH

"Also, you can't really 'mass treat', as the animal needs to be in a relatively small container for the treatment to be effective."

I think he means that ALL the animals were injected, but in their individual tubs/containers. I injected mine every other day (see my post above), making sure that no animal received more than 1CC at the same injection site. (1.7CC for the 37lb animal)
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma (Juvie female)
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.0 Angolan Juvie
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

What started the discussion was a vet's client that insisted he needed to try nebulization because his whole colony of balls had a range of RI's. Of course the discussion continued long after it was decided that these snakes needed individual treatment.(after all, this client's idea of a large ball collection was 12 snakes... amatuer )

Unfortunately, VIN (Veterinary Information Network) is a proffesional vet only site. www.vin.com. Perhaps you can request your vet find the topic for you? Membership is about $45/month, but is a vast resource for any veterinarian. I wholeheartedly recommend it if he doesn't yet have it. There are literally, experts in their feilds standing by to assist a vet through a tough case.

And before you ask, I'm lucky enough to have access at work

Ian