Reptile & Amphibian Forums

One does anyone have links to good information sources. Both in print and electronic are fine (I've searched some myself just curious what others have).

What have you found the prefered temperture range to be if you own some?

Are they (males)loud?

(One Pacific Tree Frog around here could be heard on the entire block.)

Basically I am in the early stages of thinking about getting one, but will most likely be renting a room or a small shared place soon with people who may not be as crazy about amphibians as I am. Any and all suggestions appriciated.

I heard amphibians do well in moderately cool temperature...probably around 75-80 degree. They don't like hot weather because frogs and toads looses water quickly. That is why most are active during night and during the wet and rainy season. They also like some humidity, the WTF, but you need enough ventalation so they won't get red leg or fungus infection. I read this book written by Patricia Barlett that saids that even normal room temperature in your house during the winter is fine...you do not need special heating and lighting for amphibians. If the light in the room is bright enough during the day and they can tell night from day easily then it is not required. I would feed them less during the winter though because their metabolism slows down. My zoology teacher had 3 baby toads...he left the cage in the room where the sun would shine directly into the cage. He lost 2 toadlets from dehydration, luckily the smallest one was soaking in the water the evening before; thus, was well hydrated and didn't die, and was quickly put into the water dish and made a complete recovery. You might want to read "Reptiles and Amphibians for Dummies" by Patricia Barlett. It's a very good book. And also "Frog, toads, and Amphibians" by Barlett and Barlett.

You can tell if they know the difference between night and day if they hide during the day and come out at night or vice versa.

Thanks, my two biggest concerns are the noise and the temperture. Although it never gets below 50 usually and 60 is probably the coldest it gets around here usually. I could solve this with heat I suppose which only leaves the noise question.

I've kept typical toads and frogs before, but both species were basically mute so no songs.

I think a heating mat or pad for reptile stuck to the side of the tank should be surfice. Or you can use the heating mat for people that you can buy from drug stores. Heat lamp will dry out your cage and frogs don't can die from that, and you don't need to get the cage toasty as you would caring for the reptiles, so heating lamp isn't necessary.

forgs biorythems are effected by photoperiod, which is daily duration of light. this means they must have light during the day, and dark at night.

frogs are also ectothermic, which means their internal body temps are regulated by external enviroment temps, they must have a heat source to keep the temp within the enclosure from 20-30c, if WTF's are kept any colder then this for a long period of time they will devolop "red-leg" which is a deadly bacterial disease which bursts blood capilarys in the thighs and belly of the frog, this results in the frog dieing a terrible death.

the best heat source are incandescent heat lights. this is the most natural light and heat source you can use for frogs.

keep the humidity within 40-60%, whites tree frogs actually prefer lower humidity. not high! if they are in high humidity for long periods they can devolop fungal infections which WILL kill them in a matter of days or weeks.

male frogs will call very LOUD if kept in optimal conditions, female's will reply to the males(not as loud) to let the males know that the female is wanting to breed.

if u have any more Q's you can e-mail me at lukeybaby4@hotmail.com, or check out my web-site at http://luke_zecevic.tripod.com/frogsofaustralia

hope this helps, luke z

Knot, you really should read up on the care of frogs! WTFs require lower humidity then other types of frogs. It's a proven fact that WTFs will a lot of times enjoy basking in sunlight, or in the case of captive frogs, incandecent bulbs. You are right about one thing though, they do need adaquate ventilation. They need warm temps, as not many people enjoy keeping their room temps at 80-85 F. Please read up on the care of frogs before giving advice on them!

laters,
Bill

Knot - I see my time with you when you first started wasn't very effective. I realize you are reading books which should be an accurate source of knowledge but it totally is not in this case. I really have to second the notion that you need to please know you are giving good advice before you give it. As has been said, frogs have to have a light source and heat source and heat lamps are the best way to accomplish this for several reasons. One, heat pads on the sides of glass heat the glass and treefrogs climb on glass and are esily burned. Two, if you bury a pad under substrate it won't be as likely to burn your frog but it will be "underground" and treefrogs do not go to the ground to search for heat, they go to the sun. So a lamp is much more natural and appropriate. Lamps may dry things a bit more but you don't want wet or too humid conditions anyways. A simple misting of the tanks will easily keep conditions where they should be.
I'll post the link below to my site. Hope this helps.
www.froggie.info

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Happy Frogging!!!

~Becki~

Well, amphibians actually like cooler temperature. Salamanders and frogs have been found during the spring crawling and walking on snow and even are active and mating in cold water. From what I read from my zoology book and "Reptiles and Amphibians for Dummies" by Patricia Barlett it saids that Amphibian can tolerate cool temperature. In the prehistoria, where the temperature is too cold for for crocodiles and other reptiles, amphibians thrive and are active in freezing water. One species of giant salamader in Japan are active during the time when the water is freezing cold. I'm not sure why amphibians can tolerate cold, but I think they have something in the blood that prevent them from freezing and they have, I think higher metabolism than reptiles...I have to read more on this.

The more terrestial tree frogs, actually can survive feezing condition by hibernating, and even the most terrestial frogs cannot survive with out moisture, and are often found in human settlements, attracted by water. Rarely, in people's houses it reaches freezing temperature. They'd be fine at room temp. or with heating mat.

(np)
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azureus06 I keep: leopard geckos, giant day geckos, gold dust geckos, stenodactylus geckos, crested geckos, anoles, red eyed tree frogs, green tree frogs, golden mantellas, painted mantellas, dendrobates azureus azureus06

Tree frogs are terrestrial frogs, especially white's tree frogs.

n/p
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azureus06 I keep: leopard geckos, giant day geckos, gold dust geckos, stenodactylus geckos, crested geckos, anoles, red eyed tree frogs, green tree frogs, golden mantellas, painted mantellas, dendrobates azureus azureus06

Here is a link. This piece is written by Patricia Barlett.
by Patricia Barlett

How are Tree Frogs terrestrial? Gee, I'd think that a frog that lives in a tree would be called an Arboreal Frog. Since toads are essentially a classification of frogs, an American Toad would be a prime example of a Terrestrial Frog. What I think that author meant by amphibians being active on snow and ice in the spring, is that certain temporate amphibians are breeding then. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a WTF a TROPICAL frog? That means that it needs WARM temps to survive and go about it's daily life. It's true that in some tropical regions, temps CAN fall lower then the frog's comfort range, but they solve this problem by slipping into a state of torpor to survive. These cold snaps are usually very short lived, and the frogs wake up when it gets warmer. But most importantly, long exposures to cold temps will kill them. You need to do some better research, Knot. Now I know I'm not the most intelligent person, but I do research the animals, and some of what I just posted could be flawed, but I accept that fact. Do a better job of researching before you try to give advice, it will save the person's animal.

laters,
Bill

Read that part where she said "amphibians' ( in general ) tolerance of the cold."

I READ it, did you read what I posted?

laters,
Bill

...she's talking about amphibians in general, not a specific species. And just because they 'can' survive low temps, doesnt mean it 'should' stay at low temps. Sure, mantellas could tolerate it, but can waxys? That article is NOT a caresheet to a WTF, so stop relying on that info!
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azureus06 I keep: leopard geckos, giant day geckos, gold dust geckos, stenodactylus geckos, crested geckos, anoles, red eyed tree frogs, green tree frogs, golden mantellas, painted mantellas, dendrobates azureus azureus06

Knot, I don't know what Patricia Barnett's credentials are but I have to hand it to her that the title to her book couldn't be more appropriate as she is doing nothing but educating dummies with this stuff. You CAN NOT by any means generalize amphibians into one group and care for them by that. Each specific species has it's own needs which need to be met. If you choose to listen to nonsense such as WTFs needing no heat source and treefrogs being terrestrial (the meaning of which is actually ground dwelling and arboreal means tree dwelling), that is your choice as well as the demise of your frog. A WTF kept at room temps - unless you really like it warm during the day - will in time become a sick then dead frog. I have tried the best I can to teach you what I can and I give up - care for your frog as you deem fit. But please do not instruct others on how to care for them until you have the adequate knowledge and experience to do so. Thanks!
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Happy Frogging!!!

~Becki~

Well, the term terrestrial can be use to describe organism that lives on land which includes the aboreal ( to be more specific ) animals. If you read the text books from universities the animals are described this way and if you want to be more specific you can say aboreal which means animals that lives on land in trees. Well, and Patricia Barlett did not write that tree frogs can survive freezing...I got that info. from my zoology book. That is about 3 years old. Even when I own my pac-man, in the morning when the AC was on, I would regularly find her sitting in the water dish with the air temperature of 68 degree just soaking and relaxing. And then I would feed her after that and she still had big appetite.

Knot those books are so packed full of bs ist's rediculous, there was a picture of 2 horned frogs with a caption underneath that said they were leopard frogs and native to america. That is the kind of bad information I found in my zoology book in school.

Those books aren't ridiculous, but Knot is ALWAYS MISQUOTING THEM!! First off, the Barlett's live in SW Florida where the temps don't get too cold so they don't need *additional* heating.. that means no more heating than a simple lamp that provides some heat.

Second off, I don't know what University you attend that teaches ridiculous things, but I doubt you've taken a class on Whites tree frogs and you're talking a bunch of bull in this case. A heating pad for frogs makes no sense, and Whites come from the more tropical/temperate areas of Australia. They don't like cold weather.

Terrestrial means it lives on land. By your definition, it includes anything that lives on earth, since the ocean is on top of the land just the way trees are. And things that burrow underground are in land, too, but they are not terrestrial. So tree frogs are not terrestrial by the correct definition. Uggh.

Look, you may read all the books in the world but if you just skim over them and not take in the information you're not doing yourself any good. With all the misquotes you've made I have to wonder about why you even keep saying stuff without checking the book before you do so? And I know you're not checking because I have some of those books, too, and I read what's in the book that does not say what you tell us the book says. Stop giving bad names to educated people by telling people that read the book that it says something else. You could get in trouble for that, even. Think about it.

yes knot, you are right to a certain extent. some "amphibians" can tolerate "short" periods of cold, but you must remember that the mortality rate of a wild frog is VERY high, and a wild frog would ONLY live 1/4 the lifespan then it would in CAPTIVITY.

luke z

I've lived in Thailand until I was 10, and the frogs there are active during the winter season there, that's the monsoon seasons in Thailand. The rest of the year they estavate, and some can be found active, but only directly in swamp and marshes and cannal where there are lots of vegetation for them to hide and most importantly where there are water. But you would never see them during hot weather, the rest of the year. From the zoology books, they like cooler temperature, but they can't survive in places that are really cold and freezes all year round. Amphibians are found as north as Canada here in the US and are most likely active during cooler weather because they are adapted for moist environment which will kill most terrestrial animals. If reptile were to stay on wet environment they would die from hypothermia, they need higher temp. Amphibians on the otherhand can stay in water without ill affect. They are adapted for cold temperature, and infact needs moisture.

the temp does not need to be cold for wet and moisture!!!!!!!!! in central america poison darts leave in areas where the humidity is 80-90% and the ambient air temp is 25-30c. you CAN NOT generalize with frogs!!! different species have different care requirements.

luke z

the temp does not need to be cold for wet and moisture!!!!!!!!! in central america poison darts leave in areas where the humidity is 80-90% and the ambient air temp is 25-30c. you CAN NOT generalize with frogs!!! different species have different care requirements. not all frogs "love" moisture, the majority dont!!!! they must have a water source to rehydrate their bodys, but not necesarily high humidity or a lot of moisture.

luke z

White's tree frogs do estavate when it gets too hot and dry...that's why they alot are found up and about when it rains and near human settlements where there are lots of water.

whites estavate in winter when it is dry and "cold", not hot!!!!! the hot weather is when they are very active, like in summer. this is the time they breed. thats why when breeding WTF's you must drop the temps and the humidity in the enclosure quite low, and then increase temp and humidity to get them to breed!!! i dont know what material you are reading but it is far from right!!!!!!!

luke z

Isnt' the ones people found active during hot weather are found in human settlements where there are lots of water?

knot- in the country where whites will live the humidity can reach lows of 10-20%, this is why they canb be found "sometimes" near toilets etc. they are just rehydrating their bodies. just because they are sometimes found in or near water areas does not mean they need or want it all the time.

luke z

They may say in general but the facts say otherwise Knot, some frogs can tolerate hotter temperatues better than others and some can handle cooler temperatures better than other.

Knot you are right in some instances, frogs around the world can deal with low temps and some even have an "antifreeze" type substance in their blood to prevent them from freezing in Winter.

HOWEVER, WTF are from Australia where I am and therefore they are tropical frogs and thus do not encounter freezing conditions here in Australia. WTF will NOT survive at low temps and do require an alternative heat and light source.

The articles that you are reading are general and generalisation about all frogs will lead to dead frogs.
Would you generalise dogs into one category and put the hairless crested chinese dog in Antarctica to do a huskies job just because the husky can tolerate low temps, no you wouldn't.

Same thing with frogs.
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But amphibians have the ability to switch to inactive mode when the temperature gets to cold or too hot. If you notice, they don't need high temperature because the frogs with skin intact loose water almost as fast as skinless frogs...so amphibians, actually, like cooler temperature because of this. They have evolved to tolerate cooler temp. inorder to retain water. Terrestial frogs, including terrestrial aboreal tree frogs, can survive prolong freezing. I don't know if my explanation is correct, I have to brush up on some reading...and...dum, maybe I'll post it again.

you are soooo wrong!!!!many amphibians prefer warm temps, and warm temps dont always mean dry conditions. some amphibians can survive prolonged periods of freezing, but DEFINEATELY not Whites tree frogs!!!!!!!!! i live in aus, and where WTF's naturally occur the lowest temp in the wild will reach to about 5-8c and this is just for short periods!!! if WTF's are left in the frezing cold for to long the will die!!!!

you have read one article about frogs by one author, yet their are so many people giving you the proper "info" and advise. why wont you believe us? and take the correct info we are all giving you?

luke z

If amphibs prefer cold weather, then why are there so many more (and more species, too) amphibs in tropical and temperate zones than in colder places?

And some or most frogs can hibernate, but some frogs do not and just because they hibernate during cold weather doesn't mean that very cold weather won't kill them. Take Cubans tree frogs, for example. The only reason they haven't taken over the entire SE U.S. is because every year a ton die whenever temperatures get too cold. This goes for many species.

Well Knot, the day you can show me that a any other dog other than a husky could survive in Antarctica is the day I will believe you that tree frogs can live in the snow. Same scenario.

In fact I'll give you a millions bucks
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Siberian Husky
American Eskimo
Alaskin Malamute
Greenlanders
and of course...
the Arctic Wolf

Do I get the Million dollars?

(Dogs aren't permitted in Antartica anymore because they have been found to spread desease to seal, they use Siberian Ponies now)
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Heather

OK Smarty pants, but you get my drift. Besides those types of dogs that have evolved for those conditions, others would die pronto. So would tree frogs in the snow or cold temps for that long.
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I couldn't resist LOL Now where's my million dollars? LOL

I knew what you were getting at though and I agree 100%. Simply because "some" species of amphibians are found in snow or even lower temps doesn't mean that they can survive in it. In most cases, those that have been found in the colder temps also have much shorter lives.

Simply put, when it comes to keeping anything in captivity you have to always concider where that critter is naturally found. When something eventually "adapts" it is over time, which can span generations. You can't take a White's, for example, and put it in an enclosure without heat or lighting and expect it to survive.
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Heather

I am sure that, in the book, when it talked about frogs in snow, it meant the wood frog. These guys are terrestrial and have an "antifreeze" type of blood, and can be found on sunny winter days. I HIGHLY doubt you would see a treefrog in the snow!
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*~Ginevive~*

Where does that say anyhing about whites treefrogs being terrestrial? They are aboreal.

tree frogs are aboreal not terrestrial!!!!!!!!!!!! they are from the family hylidae which meaens "TREE" "FROG", they primarily live in trees.

luke z

many amphibians have "glycerin" in their blood which acts like a antifreeze to stop a frog freezing in cold weather. but this does not mean they prefer cold temps, all reptiles and amphibians have a "preffered body temp" and the preffered body temp is usually high, especially for whites. WHITES DO NOT like cool temps, only the MINORITY of frogs prefer cool temps!!!!!!!!! you are obviously misinformed by the material you are reading. so STOP giving people WRONG INFOMATION!!!!!!!!.

luke z

Some frogs do like cooler temperatures, but those aren't the frogs we are discussing currently. Different frogs have different needs after all.

Are you keeping them inside, or out? Because do you mean 60 inside your home, or outside?

Sorry I forgot there was an actual question up here, go to lukeybaby's site and there should be all the information you need, if you still have more questions just ask.

Yeah, looks like we got a little side-tracked lol. Anyways as amazinglyricist stated, lukeybaby has a very good WTF caresheet on his very nice website. It's a very good site, so go check it out!

laters,
Bill

n/p

http://luke_zecevic.tripod.com/frogsofaustralia
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http://luke_zecevic.tripod.com/frogsofaustralia

no prob!

laters,
Bill