Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is there alot of these mysterious deaths with pygmies? How many people have lost them like this? Who hasn't lost any? We all need to put our heads together and try to come up with a hypothosis as to why, something to go on.

its me agian.....anyways lots of people have been reporting deaths of females during egg laying.... i think its a combination of parasites...somtimes wrong enivironment and just stress from being in groups.

but lots of people keep pygmies in large groups with no problems.

i dont know what it is but most of the time its females

I lost two of mine shortly after I got them. Both were females and both had laid eggs (one on the trip to me and one shortly after she arrived). The other common denominator for those was that they were both exposed to extreme heat during shipping (long story, but they were supposed to be to me by 10:30am but didn't arrive until 2:30pm so they rode around on the truck in the hot FL sun...one was DOA). I suspect that for mine, it was the combination of the gravid factor along with the stress of shipping and being exposed to the high temps.

I hope my bad luck is over! I have two females at the moment...one wild caught adult that is doing well (knock on wood) and one CB almost 3 1/2 month old...keeping them in seperate enclosures for awhile.

I have a few eggs that are incubating in the one enclosure with the WC female...should (hopefully!) hatch mid-August.

Kristen

Pygmys are relatively 'new' to the herp trade, and up until now not much as been known about their requirements in captivity. Being a small reptile, they often fall prey to a hole crap load of other animals. They reach sexual maturity at a very young age and reproduce rapidly, some laying 2 eggs every 2 months. They need to lay this quickly in order for their species to survive, if they waited 6 months to a year like other chameleons, they would probably be extinct right now.

I guess what I'm saying is that they don't really need to live that long, just as long as they survive a year or so to breed, for the greater good of the species. I would imagine that through their evolution, longevity wouldn't be an inherited trait, since they are so small and are basically a food source for other animals, but fast reproduction sure would be an inherited trait. Therefor I would imagine that you would opt to buy males if you wanted to keep them as pets because they'd live longer, and females only if you wanted to breed.

That's my theory anyways, sounds pretty good to me *cocky smile*
haha.

I also want to extend my sympathies to those who have lost their gems from the forest floor over the past while, it's depressing.

-Brock

That sounds about right, we know Lele is an excellent mamma, so that would explain her loss. I'm beginning to want a colony myself. What is the longest someone has kept a female alive in captivity?

Yes, i have lost a pygmy when egg laying. However, she did not even try to dig a hole. She just remained on her stick with her eyes closed (I belive she was just too weak.) One morning I went to mist her, and there she was, laying on the floor, exactly like Lele had photographed her. My vet found some eggs inside her that caused the death. She just kept them in fr too long. Strange, huh? All females, all with eggs, and all in groups.

Anthony

we need to know the age of the females when they die. Has anyone tried extracting the eggs to incubate post-mortem?

I dont know if that will work... Someone has to give it a try though. But remember that this species of chameleon isnt like, lets say, Ch. Calyptratus. I think I read it on Chameleonnews that the eggs are buried and then they actually begin incubating. They come out very thin shelled and all. Well, good job Alan, youre helping s out.

Anthony

A few points re: Makeda...

**we don't know for sure if she was gravid
**she was only about 5 months old
**she was captive bred (Kammers)
**she was fine and healthy for full two months before things took a down turn
** the three of them lived quite harmoniously - if ANY of them was more of a loner or seemed to get stressed easily it was Kaiya

I make these points only b/c there are some differences b/t mine Kristen's and Anthony's. I think the main one was cb vs. wc,

We have a vet appt. today at 4:50 (EST) so I will report back anything I can when we get back tonight. Maybe it will be in this community (forum) that we discover some things about the leafs in captivity. I understand their lifespan is 36-48 months.

later,
lele

Mornin Lele Surely they live genetics-wise longer than five months. Probably not stress from grouping, aren't they found together in the wild? since yours was captive bred and we assume she had no parasites(?) must have been from environmental conditionssomething missing in the diet or an undetected infectionparasite. Hope you have an interested vet.

I lost a female just a few days ago. She had only been with me for 3 days. She didn't show any signs of distress till right at the end. She was being kept with a male, who seems to be perfectly healthy. Im assuming it was stress from shipping and/or being gravid. She had 16 eggs in her when she died.

Patrick

Oh I'm sorry about your girl too...jeeze, these little ones are giving us quite the challenge lately.

What's with the orange colored eggs? Does that mean that they were not yet ready to be deposited? I would assume that since they look that way that they are not viable then. Isn't 16 a crazy amount of eggs for a pygmy? I thought it was more 2-5??

Interesting and so very sad at the same time.
Kristen

The eggs were definitely not ready to be laid. Some however were beginning to become calcified and develop a white "shell". On some I could even see the veins of the developing embryo. My guess is that these chameleons are more fragile than most and cannot handle the stress of shipping and acclimatization as well as other species. Hopefully this won’t become the standard with these chameleons.

Patrick

Oh I'm sorry about your girl too...jeeze, these little ones are giving us quite the challenge lately.

What's with the orange colored eggs? Does that mean that they were not yet ready to be deposited? I would assume that since they look that way that they are not viable then. Isn't 16 a crazy amount of eggs for a pygmy? I thought it was more 2-5??

Interesting and so very sad at the same time.
Kristen

If they are like birds at all they will cycle out a few eggs at a time, and hold the rest til a few more are ready, does anybody know? I read they lay a few every couple months so this could be so. Maybe the diet is too good and they produce more eggs inside than their tiny bodies can handle, which doesn't make much sense really, per evolution. I don't suppose the eggs could incubate in the mother after she dies in the wild, since something would probably eat her and the eggs. We need input from someone who has raised them and find out how long the longest lived viable female lived or is living and what they feed them etc.

16 eggs is quite a large amount. Chameleons produce eggs whether they get fertilized or not, so if they don't lay them, they just keep piling up inside them over time and eventually cause the chameleon to suffocate. With 16 eggs inside her, she must not have laid any eggs for like 8 months to a year.

>>16 eggs is quite a large amount. Chameleons produce eggs whether they get fertilized or not, so if they don't lay them, they just keep piling up inside them over time and eventually cause the chameleon to suffocate. With 16 eggs inside her, she must not have laid any eggs for like 8 months to a year.