Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First, a baby:

Here are a few of a larger specimen:

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A drab, DOR specimen:

And a habitat shot:

Here's a quote from: "Guide to the Amphibians and Reptiles of Japan." Goris and Maeda. 2004
"The venom produces effects similar to those of the African boomslang, Dispholidus typus, that is, diffuse intravascular coagulation, followed by inability of the blood to coagulate at all. Death may occur from shock due to massive internal bleeding, renal failure, cerebral hemorrhage, or other related causes."
Sounds like a lot of fun.
The snake:
Rhabdophis t. tigrinus, the Tiger Keelback, or Yamakagashi.

Shane
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Shane's Herp Lifelist
http://www.geocities.com/shane77@sbcglobal.net/my_page.html

Fun indeed!

I was bitten in 1979 by its cousin, the Rednecked Keelback. Back then they were thought of as harmless (even the Larouse Encyclopedia listed it as a natrix).

A 2.5 ft specimen came in fresh from Asia with a shed probs. As I examined it and removed the dead skin the snake bit my wrist and started to chew. Since there was supposed to be no danger (lol) I continued my work, satisfied because it had stopped squirming.

I was not envenomated (to my knowlege) though the snake held on for over two minutes (I never showed any symptoms).

A week later, a boy in California was bitten by the same species and almost died.

Personally, I feel lucky.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Whoa, you did get lucky! I wonder how many deadly rear-fanged snakes are out there that are still considered harmless. Probably more than a handful. What's especially scary about them is the length of time it can take between envenomation and death. Herpetologists seem to have a knack for getting killed by rear-fanged snakes.
Shane
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Shane's Herp Lifelist
http://www.geocities.com/shane77@sbcglobal.net/my_page.html

That is odd.
I've been bitten by xenocropis piscator(chequered keelback) and rhadophis chysarghus (speckle-bellied keelback) without any problems. The general perception here in Malaysia is that none of our local keelbacks are dangerous, including the rednecked. However, those in other countries i hear are dangerous. Perhaps the boy was allergic to its venom, but feedback from our locals indicate that our keelbacks are not dangerous at all.

Boiga,

There is a very big difference between Xenocopis (which IS harmless) and Rhadophis. The Rednecked Keelback has been shown to have a rather potent venom.

You might want to ask BGF about that one.

As for the locals...King Cobras (an obviously venomous snake) are often identified by the locals as follows.

Male Cobra = Cobra

Female Cobra = Pytas ratsnakes

Coming from a country where Hognose snakes are called "Spreading Adders" and Milksnakes are "positively IDed as "Copperheads" I suggest:

Never trust the opinion of uneducated locals.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

No offense frank,
But a boiga nigriceps's venom is as toxic as a death adder, and lots of rear fangers have venom that is potentially as toxic as elapids. U don't get my point. Im not here to argue with u on venom levels, but that our keelbacks in Malaysia have not caused an serious envenomations. And having mentioned rhadophis, i did tell u i was bitten by a chyrsagus didn't i?
Like i said perhaps the boy was allergic to its venom, BUT our Malaysian species have not been identified by our snake keepers and experts as being dangerous. And i have handled alot of keelbacks.
Secondly i think ur perception of 'locals' is warped. Our locals are not as uneducated as u think, esp when in connection with the abrogines who do alot of snake hunting for us.
Cheers

None taken. I do however doubt that your locals and Abo's are in relation to their local species anymore remarkably informed than our locals (Seminoles etc...)are about our snakes. One thing you learn is a lot of 'common' knowlege is not always accurate.

To my experience (which constitutes over 40 years of not just reptile keeping but also rescue and educational work with a variety of animals) even some folk you might think of as experts are sadly under informed.

Least I sound like I am beating my own drum...very few people I have met in this business keep any kind of library beyond basic and don't research beyond the species they actually keep.

Like I said, I too was bitten by a 'Keelback, species without bad results. However, if any of my siblings had been bitten the results would have been serious.

And that is my point. Since you cannot gage the effect on an individual and the species is known to be highly venomous it should be treated with the respect it deserves.

This reminds me of a video an Aussie friend of mine once shot and showed our society. It showed a bunch of Thai locals collecting Pope's and white lipped tree vipers. The men stood around a large round container and emptied their collecting bags by reaching in and pulling handfuls of the vipers out. Some were biting the men, but the general consensus of what they told my friend, was that the bites were considered no big deal.

Personally, I have no desire to test that 'expert local opinion' on my tree vipers.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

There have been a number of life-threatening cases of Rhabdophis subminatus bites in hobbyists in Europe and N. America - there is no doubt that the species is potentially lethal. Moreover, the symptoms of Rhabdophis bites (DIC, coagulopathy, renal involvement) are quite different from those of venom allergy.

Having said that, like most rearfangs, the vast majority of Rhabdophis bites are asymptomatic, presumably because either the fangs don't go in, or because venom is only secreted when the snake is motivated by hunger rather than in defensive situations (something only likely to occur in captive situations). A series of five R. subminatus bites sustained int he field in Thailand was entirely benign. The experience of Malaysian locals and European/US herpers are thus not unreconcilable.

Even in the most dangerous rearfangs (Dispholidus, Thelotornis), only 10-20% of bites result in any symptoms, so it is no wonder that some species only reveal their true potential over a number of years in the herp hobby.

Cheers,

WW
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WW Home

So perhaps that explains why there no serious cases in Msia. Perhaps too that local Asians possess some kind of immunity to keelback venom (a serious possiblity?). If the lack of motivation for rhadophis to secrete venom in conditions outside captivity is true, then i stand corrected. However there are keelback keepers in Msia who over many years have yet to report their perceived lethality outside Asia. Is that a mystery or coincidence? Perhaps time will tell.

..and an interesting thread/forum...(knew i'd find one somewhere).