Reptile & Amphibian Forums

As I search all the ads, and forums on KS, I can't help but wonder...what good does a rescue service do, if their adoption costs are as much as buying an animal from a breeder or a pet shop?
I live near a "rescue" that advertises here, and the way I see it, their adoption costs are the same as buying an animal.
Is this really a rescue? Or just a pet seller going under the name rescue to make a profit.
I would love to adopt some animals, but the adoption costs make it out of the question.
I do educational shows with my animals for schools, scouts, etc, so I can use any animal. And I'm more than able to give them a home,but at the prices I've seen for rescues,
I'd just as soon buy the exact animal I want from a breeder at maybe just a little more than this rescue.
I personally have placed many animals with families that want them, and more than one wildlife education group ( Audubon Society usually ) has received my animals for educational use.
So why so much for adoption fes?
I've no problem with nomimal fees, but when the cost is the same as a pet shop, perhaps it is time to change the name from rescue to re-seller?
At high costs,I'm sure it becomes difficult to place an animal.
Am I the only one that feels this way?
Ok...I've vented, and rambled long enough.
Any ideas, or input on this from others?

I've been doing rescue, rehab, and adoptions for almost 10 years now. It started with a couple of Green Iguanas and escalated from there. In those 10 years we've worked with all types of Iguanas, Monitors (including an 8 foot Croc), Tegus, American Alligators, Bearded Dragons, Burms, Retics, Boas, etc. Our adoption fees range from $5 to $50. We have recieved a couple of fees higher than that for exceptional or rare species. I am currently caring for more than 2 dozen Iguanas, 12 Bearded Dragons, 2 Water Dragons, 4 Savs, an Argus, a Water monitor, a Blackthroat monitor, a couple of Uros, some Spinytailed iguanas, 7 Burms, 3 Retics, about a dozen Boas, 9 tortoises, and assorted other reptiles.

Here is a sample of our (winter) monthly budget:

Utilities: $520
Produce: $200
Bugs: $100
Rodents: $180
Caging: $150 variable
Vet care: $200 variable
Supplies $100 includes cleaners, paper products, bulbs, etc
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Total $1450

This does not include transportation costs or emergency vet expenditures. I devote 6-8 hours daily to care, cleaning, food prep, medicating, bathing, etc.

We average about 10-12 adoptions a year. We could probably place many more but we are very particular when it comes to placing our animals. As you can see, our adoption fees don't come anywhere close to covering the expenses. We try to compensate for this by requiring a surrender fee for animals that we take in and by begging for things that we need. We are fortunate to have some items donated.

An animal adopted from a rescue most likely has had veterinary care, is parasite free, and may possibly be well socialized. You don't usually get that from a pet store.

An animal is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Some rescues place a higher adoption fee on their animals with the hopes that if someone is willing to pay more they will be more responsible with that animal. We charge less but screen very thoroughly.

I hope this may have cleared up some issues for you.

Thank you for your response. Actually, reading your response, your rescue is not the type of rescue I have a problem with.
Your fees are reasonable, and I think it's ok if you would want to screen me to see if I'd be a responsible owner.
Where I do have a problem is with a "rescue" that has "adoption fees" that are nearly as much, or as much as retail.
Are they truly a rescue? Or are they a business, trying to turn a profit under the guise "rescue"?
I run an educational business with my animals. I do exhibitions at schools, enrichment programs, scouts...etc.
I am always looking to add animals to my collection. I can certainly give an animal a good home. But when I see adoption fees that are the same as retail, I just go a get the animal I want from a breeder.
Your fees are fine, I know all too well the cost of keeping miltiple animals. I also breed dogs, and know that people are under the impression "you must make a lot of money doing that".
You keep your fees down, hoping that you can place an animal.
When I see fees for common animals over $100, I begin to think,
"this person is just selling the animals".
You are what I would consider a true rescue. Some others I have seen here, I would not.
Please note, this is my opinion. And you know what they say about opinions.
But if the rescue is truly wanting to place an animal, the high fees really are'nt the way to go.
A prospective home will pass you by. And the animal is still not place.
High adoption fees, and nobody wins.

I understand your point of view. I usually discern those who are legitimate rescues from the fakers by the adoption policy. If it's a sliding scale based on the animals worth in the marketplace then I am skeptical.

As an example a burm adoption should cost the same whether it's a normal, albino, or granite. There simply is no reason to charge more if your goal is a good home for the animal.

At the SPCA here you can get purebreds and mutts all for the same adoption fee.
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CDieter
'Reason, observation, and experience; the holy trinity of science.'

Well, not exactly. A normal phase Burmese python is harder to find a home for than an albino, typically, so a lower adoption fee for a normal phase would be an encentive to get it adopted faster. And if you can get a higher fee for a color morph, why not, since they all need to eat and a vet visit isn't free!

I usually only work with turtles and tortoises, and it works the same way for sliders. I can't charge an adoption fee and still find homes for sliders, but I CAN charge an adoption fee for more uncommon or highly-sought after species to help off-set the cost of caring for ALL of the animals that come in, and still find them a good home. A $40 fee for a terrapin can off-set that $300/month extra on my rent for the spare bedroom that houses the foster animals, not to mention the food, electricity, gas and car maintenance and car insurance (we could get rid of the car if I didn't do rescue), and the three or four hours a day I spend on rescue and education. Oh, and the fights with my husband over how much time (and money) I'm spending on the animals.

Katrina
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1.2 Eastern Muds - Fred, Ethel, Edith
0.1 Iguana - Tiffel
0.1 Bearded Dragon - Foster
Foster turtles: More than I'd like the husband to know about.

I could not have said it better my self. I have heard many reasons over the years mostly having to do with money, money, money ie. it costs so much to open a rescue or we have vet and housing costs etc. We founded our rescue out of our own pocket we do not put animals up for adoption and we do not ask for donations of any kind. It is my unpopular view that if you are not able to afford running a rescue you should send any animal needing rescue to someone who can afford to run one. (oh and do it free of charge.) It seems to me that if you are making money with animals in anyway you are an animal dealer not a rescue. I am not trying to offend anyone, I do fully understand how much it costs in time and money to run a rescue but if it has scales like a snake, no legs like snake, and teeth like a snake it is probably a snake. Charging money for adoption is wrong.

So you're saying that only the wealthy should do rescue because charging an adoption fee is wrong?

Funny, many of the dog rescues I talk with think that if you pay too much out of your pocket, you're doing it wrong.

Some people are of the mind set that no animal should be given away for free, because people care less about that which they get for free. How many times have you heard "Why should I take a $15 turtle (or hamster, or gecko, ect.) to the vet?"

Katrina
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1.2 Eastern Muds - Fred, Ethel, Edith
0.1 Iguana - Tiffel
0.1 Bearded Dragon - Foster
Foster turtles: More than I'd like the husband to know about.

First off Katrina I have researched this forum and it seems I will not be the first to say to you..... We are not hear to talk about dogs. We are hear to talk about reptiles and in this case reptile rescues, who charge for their "adoption" services. Dogs are nothing like reptiles, Dog rescues are nothing like reptile rescues. I responded to your other pessimistic message regarding our permanent intake rescue. So I will also take the time to respond to this comment as well. There is no reason for any rescue to charge for adoption, when there are so many intake facilities, like ours for example. Not to mention the vast amount of truly dedicated herpers. Who do it for the love of the science and love nothing more than their animals. Why would you think I said only the wealthy should run rescues. That was never said. What was clearly stated was if you cant afford to run a rescue you should not attempt it. We... just like every one else here are doing the best we can to ensure that these animals (that by no choice of their own depend on us) are taken care of. I would never slam on anyone who is doing this for the right reasons. From the guy who can only afford to take in one gecko, to the guy who has several hundred sq feet of housing space and can take in an extreme volume of animals. If you want to know the truth I have taken in almost as many animals from people who payed to adopt as I have from every other type of rescue. Any one who proffits from the sale/adoption of an animal is an animal dealer. Other wise they would just simply use intake homes. I am not saying every rescue is set up for the wrong reason. Rescue ops. are very taxing there are food costs, electric, water, housing, propperty as well as buildings, intake segragation areas for treatment of every thing from mites to IBD, VET BILLS, med costs and I could go on and on. In short I am saying if you are charging fees because that is how you afford to run your opperation then you have probably taken in to many animals and you should find a rescue to give your animals to......... We are here to care for them.... We are here to love them...... We are here to protect them......We are here to let them live what is left of their lives in peace.....Money has nothing to do with it. As a matter of fact money is the main reason they started their journey in the first place.

How do you fund your rescue? Do you do fundraisers, have a dedicated group of donors, sponsors, or a source for grants?

I helped place 57 animals into new homes last year. Most of that was with my own funds, but some of it was also with the help of donations and fees. Each rescue does something different. One thinks I'm nuts for NOT charging an adoption fee for most of the animals, even if it's just $5 for a slider (because she wants to make sure the adopter isn't just trying to get an animal "cheap", another used to be appauled that anyone would charge a surrender or adoption fee, but by the time all was said and done, he starting charging them once he'd been in rescue long enough (and he was a very picky about to whom his animals went). One won't adopt to first-time reptile owners, but I will if I feel the person has done enough research and is competent (half my sliders get adopted this way - and they're hard enough to find homes for without excluding new keepers). Some don't use adoption contracts, I do. I've worked with all of them, though, despite our differences, when the needs of the animal dictated that I work with another rescue. The point is, we work together despite our differences. Calling another rescue a dealer just because you don't agree with their methods is counter-productive.

Katrina

"Any one who proffits from the sale/adoption of an animal is an animal dealer."

Why do you think that anyone charging an adoption fee is "profiting"? Asking for a $10 adoption fee for an animal that had a $30 vet bill (or required $30 worth of food and husbandry accessories while in foster care) is not profitting.

Katrina

We do not use any outside sources for funding, we are fortunant and do not really need to. We have been involved in rescue for many years and have always done things this way. Proffit is not asking $10.00 if you spent $10.00, it is asking $10.01 when you only spent $10.00. If you must do it that way thats fine but it should be capped at oh lets say $20.00. Of course I go back to my point if you cant afford to take care of them with out worrying about getting back ten dollars you spent to care for and keep an animal alive, you should not be running a rescue. Also you mentioned you ask for an adoption contract. By chance do you also breed reptiles? Do you offer these animals for sale? Do you have a no breeding clause? Do you have a no breeding clause with the all your animal sales?

"Also you mentioned you ask for an adoption contract. By chance do you also breed reptiles? Do you offer these animals for sale? Do you have a no breeding clause? Do you have a no breeding clause with the all your animal sales?"
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Why do you want to know if I breed reptiles? The answer is no, by the way.

Sliders and sulcatas come with a no-breeeding clause, and the adoption contract further states:

"I, _______________________ hereby acknowledge receiving from _______________________ or its agents, the following animal(s), which I agree to care for in a humane manner and maintain in accordance with the laws and ordinances in the county and state in which I reside.

I further agree that I will not sell, trade, release, or give away said animal in any way without the written permission of ___________. If I cannot care for this animal for any reason, I may return it to ______________________."

The common and scientific name of the animal is included, along with it's age (if no age information is available from the original owner, then "adult" or "juvenile" is used), and a unique one-up identification number. Lately I've been adding a picture of the animal to the adoption contract. The surrendering owner signs a similar surrender form.

Katrina

Just wondering. No other reason.

There are a couple of reasons that I place animals with adoptive homes. The first reason is because I'd rather see someone that is interested in acquiring a reptile pet adopt an animal that is needing a forever home rather than purchase one and support a pet store that, most likely, sells to anyone that will shell over some cash.

Adoption also provides a new pet owner with a healthy animal from the beginning and usually one that is at least partially socialized. This gives the new pet owner a great advantage over buying an animal that possibly is infested with parasites, has had improper husbandry, and very little socialization experience. Adoption also gives the new owner access to accurate help and advice after the adoption process is completed.

Someday I'd like to have the opportunity to only take in animals that I'd like to keep on a permanent basis. Until that time I'll still be taking in many Green Iguanas, Boas, Burmese Pythons, Sulcata tortoises, and Savannah monitors, because these are the animals that need rescue and rehoming most frequently. If I have the resources and can do it properly I will try to help any animal in need, be it a tarantula or a Croc monitor. Many of the Iguanas and Burms stay here permanently, or very long term, because they are not easy to place.

We request an adoption fee because it places a value with the animal. It makes the adopted animal an investment that is worthy of the attention that it needs and deserves. An adoption fee also helps weed out the person that just wants a "big, cool lizard" to show off. We never expect adoption fees to come close to covering our own investment in an animal.

Lastly, to be honest, even though we have a no breeding clause in our adoption contract, someday I hope to produce and hatch a clutch of eggs from my Rhino Iguanas. They are spectacular animals and I know that I could place every hatchling with an adoptive parent that has been waiting for years for one of their offspring.

Well for what it is worth we are here to help and will take any animals you need to place.

What about an application process? Is the group in question researching the adopter at all? Is there an application that has to be filled out, or is it "first come, first served?"

Typically adoption fees are at least somewhat less than retail prices. A rescue charging high adoption fees (based on market value) and placing few animals might be suspect of hoarding (charge a high fee so that few people apply and the animal is artifically "forced" to stay with the rescue rather than going to an "undeserving" home) while one charging high fees but having a revolving door of animals is suspect of being a dealer for profit.

Katrina

When you talk about $40-$50 to offset the cost of animal care, I consider those nomimal fees. I will look long and hard at an animal having an adoption fee of that amount.
When the cost jumps appreciably, I can buy whatever I am looking for privately, and sadly, the "rescued" animal is out of the pic.
I don't have a problem with shipping cost either. I do know how much this all costs.I'm really suprised more rescues don't offer shipping if someone is willing to pay for it.
But don't have high priced "adoption fees", based on, as one poster mentioned, a sliding scale depending on the species.
Because no matter what you call yourself...fees based on species...the more desireable the species...you are a dealer.
Plain and simple. You rescue an animal, you work to cover SOME expenses. You cannot expect to cover all of them. Or you end up
with a lot of un-adopted animals.
All the posters on this thread, appear to have the best interest of the animals in mind.The fees are fair and nominal.
I noticed none of the high priced rescues responded.

Where are you seeing these ads?

Katrina

Seeing them here on KS...keep in mind this is an opinion.
What might seem overpriced to me, may not seem that way to others.

This is certainly an interesting discussion and one that we have internally battled with for a long time. What we ultimately decided, is that adoption fees were to be based on a case by case basis. What we take into consideration first is the cost of care for the animal, which includes feeding, housing, and medical. However, if the cost of care for an animal exceeds average market price, then we charge what we feel we can effectively get, and try to compensate elsewhere. Like you said, nobody is willing to pay $150 for a Columbian boa when they can go to petco and buy one for $100. So even if we end up with $150 into that animal, we only ask $75. So, if we get a higher end animal such as a Dumeril’s boa that comes in healthy and costs nothing more than a few mice and some space, we may ask $75- $100 to help offset the costs of the others. This does not by any means create a profit. We have far more animals come in where their medical expenses exceed the adoption fees, so overall we always end up in the red. We had a $500 vet bill (not to mention another $150 on follow-up care) on an albino burm that came in egg-bound, to get a C-section, and we only received $150 adoption fee for her. This is the reasons we do what we do. However, all adoption fees are negotiable as well. We have had a number of instances where we reduced the fees in order for someone to buy a nice habitat or assist with exorbitant shipping fees.
As for how do we screen applicants. We have an extensive application (based on Melissa Kaplans) that people must fill out thoroughly. I went through the application and it took me nearly an hour to complete it. Filling out a complete application is the first step in determining the seriousness of an applicant. We then meet as a group every couple/few weeks to review the applications. Local adoptions always get first preference, then order received after that. We look at overall stability in life, knowledge of the animals, passion - as can best be depicted from a piece of paper & thoroughness of the application. You'd be surprised how many people vaguely answer the question "what will the animal(s) be housed in and describe the set up" with "a cage with shavings".
If someone is approved, we have an adoption contract that they sign. The essence of that contract is that they agree to care for the animals, they realize that the animals can inflict harm, and that if they need to get rid of it, they must contact us and we have first option to get it back.
And to address the question about breeding, we do not condone or adopt to anyone wanting to breed iguanas, burmese pythons, or sulcatas as they seem to be the biggest problem animals. Most others such as corn snakes and kingsnakes are not a breeding concern for us.
Sorry this is so long, but I hope this helps shed a little light on this question.