Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have mostly been a snake and lizard guy for years(many), turtles just seemed too troublesome and high maintenance. Every article /book etc. seems to have lines that jump out at you like. "Shell deformities oocur if the proper this and that aren't fed...." Beaks and claws become problems... Sallmonella and dirty constantly needed water changes.....No more vacations... Your turtle must be taken out for natural sunlight and if you don't have banks of Full spectrum lites your little turtle will turn into a Blob impersonator. Your life is over now that you have to wait hand and foot on your turtles well being....Well, you get the point.

Let me add that I keep all my animals VERY clean and am meticulous but it seems to do turtles right is well....prohibitive..

But I saw another one of those REALLY COOL LITTLE ORNATE WOOD TURTLES TODAY at a herp show. Can anybody point me in the right direction to learn more about them? Thanks,
Bob

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To get to the other side where people had some enthusiasum, passion, curiosity..

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Things sure are different on this Forum

Slow.....and......steady......does.....not ......really.....win......the ......race........or.....make.......for.......a........lively.......Forum.......LOL

Thanks anyway Guys.
Bob

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I'll talk to you.

I kept some central american wood turtles for awhile.

I'm assuming that what you were looking at was a Rhinoclemmy subspecies.

There is a good article on their outdoor care on www.tortoise.org

here's an article that covers the main points

www.chelonia.org/Articles/rpulcherrimacare.htm

I think your original post is correct in that many people try to treat turtle/tortoise keeping as something only a purist could do right. I think a turtle's needs are closer to that of diurnal lizards than nocturnal snakes. They need a fuller environment with heat/light on a daily cycle, not a tub in a rack with constant background heat.

So, what do you do?

1) Read up on the species. Find out what kind of environment they need. Decide if you can make the right enclosure for them. My wood turtles were fine animals, but they needed a fairly high humidity, and through trial and error I've found that I can't keep high humidity animals. If I get the humidity right, my herp room develops mold. If I keep humidity down enough to stop the mold, the humid-loving animals go into hiding. Now I stick to desert species, with the exception of my dumpy frog. He's very tolerant and does well with regular misting and a water bowl.

2) If you provide a good environment and provide a varied diet of acceptable foods and appropriate supplements, the turtle will be fine. Yes, it helps if you provide some UV lighting. And even better if you can give them some time outdoors. For my indoor tortoises I provide them a full-spectrum fluorescent bulb from Home Depot that has a little UV output. I sprinkle some d3/calcium powder on their greens, and I also give them some pelleted foods (Mazuri and Pretty Pets) that also have D3 in them. And in warm weather I allow them a few hours of basking time a week. Result, firm shells and even growth.

So find a species that can fit into your own personal environment, make an enclosure that fits their needs, and enjoy. Pay attention to heat/light/hydration. Ornates will thrive on a mixed diet of some greens, fruits, bugs and some pellets.

The biggest problem with leaving them alone for a few days is the poop. They can poop a lot and then walk around in it. Sometimes when I leave for a couple days I shut off the heat lamps on my indoor torts and let them cool out. Temps drop back into the 70s and 80s instead of 80s and 90s. They slow down and don't eat as much. As if a mild cool-front moved in.

For my outdoor torts, I don't worry as much. The sun and rain keep their pens clean enough for the few days I'm gone.

Good luck!

I have been checking out things as you said and have been checking out those Waterland tubs. I have kept/bred Blue tongue skinks for years and they lend themselves to being able to go away on vacations etc. w/o problems(lites and heat on timers some times turned off like you said)

I wouldn't want to jump into this haphazard if I were to do it all. Is feeding a daily event or can greens etc. be kept on hand for a few days and earthworms let loose into part of the substrate to be eaten at leisure? (one site said a 50/50 of potting soil and mulch was a good substrate. Like you mentioned with your humidity problems, if I can't do this right I'll pass. My cellar also is kept at 60* for the winter and turned up to 70* when doing projects/laundry etc.(cages heated independently)I have recently downsized and am enjoying keeping the few rather than the many. Don't want to get enslaved to too demanding an animal.

Thanks very much for your time!
Bob.

For the ornates you could leave some greens, and earthworms in the soil might be found.

If the enclosure is in an area that will get down to 60, you will need to keep it heated 24 hours a day. These wood turtles (which are tropical in origin, not temperate like the American wood turtle) would need overnight temps in the mid 70s.

You can feed them maybe 3 times a week. The water bowl, which can end up as a toilet, will need to be checked regularly when you are around (once a day is nice.) I haven't left any of my animals completely unattended for more than a few days, and that includes (over the years) blue tongues, various geckoes, a couple snakes, and various torts and turtles.

I could see being gone for 7-10 days, but not for weeks at a time. They are still dependent on you for food, water, and maintenance. If you are gone for anything longer than a week or so, you would need to have someone else drop by, throw in some food, and change the water bowl. In fact, it would be nice for someone to drop by every 5 days or so. I haven't tested the limits of this, but obviously you couldn't leave any reptile alone except for 5-day visits for too long. Someone has to do a good cleaning, check the animal for health, change blown light bulbs, provide fresh food more frequently, etc, at some point. I know with the blue-tongue I had for a few years it would make a mess of an enclosure within a few days just from pooping and smearing food. And obviously you couldn't leave an animal on a reduced heat/light schedule to slow down its metabolism without having a negative effect on the animal's health.

I think the blue-tongue is a good comparison. The blue-tongue is diurnal, needs moderate to high temps, a varied diet, and requires regular attention. If you could cope with the blue-tongue, you can cope with these turtles. If you found that the blue-tongue really cramped your style, then you should skip the turtles.

The Bluetongue enlosure is a 5'x2' 20" high custom Oceanic aquarium. With Aspen bedding and spot cleaning it, it's very easy to maintain. Full spectrum lites over the entire cage and a hotspot and the adults only eat a few times a week,sometimes daily during peak activity time (babies every day),The adults eat nothing for weeks on end when they go down for a season prior to breeding.(I have always taken my q's from them).

Could you circumvent the daily water changes by going for one of those large Waterland tubs (I guess the one that's 2/3 land and 1/3 water?)and using one of those strong outdoor pond filters or one of those fish filters I see people just put in the water or is that unrealistic? I thought perhaps you can build a stand for it and wheel it over to the sink for easy cleaning. I can heat a large section of the land area with a heat pad( of course allowing a cool area.)Certainly fullspectrum lighting and a hot spot would be provided. I guess the 60* Winter nite time temp would not be easy even with a blue nite bulb on an unenclosed setup. Thanks for your input.Guess I may have to skip it if I can't do it well.
Bob.

As for filtering the water ...

I've never been up on water filters. The wood turtles I had were more into puddle-soaking and not swimming. I thought it much easier to just dump out a bowl of water every day or two instead of hooking up a larger, deeper area with a filter. Especially if they weren't going to do any real swimming. There are species of Rhinoclemmys that do prefer deeper water for true swimming.

That's partly why I've stuck to tortoises. They are happy with a shallow bowl of water for drinking. I also have a 3-toe box turtle. It's a puddle-soaker, too, but is much more tolerant of cooler temps. It stays in a 13 sq ft Rubbermaid bin filled with soil& leaves outdoors in warm weather (~March to ~October) and sleeps in a tub of leaves in the basement over the winter. In fact, an American box turtle might be a good alternative to the wood turtles. They would be fine with your cooler basement temps at night. If you can get an ornate boxie (Terrapene ornata), they need a little less humidity than the Eastern/3-toe varieties (T. carolina ssps). Otherwise it's abou the same diet, and if you get CB hatchlings, you might be able to raise them up without hibernating them. They need moderate temps (60s to 80s), a basking area, a bowl of water, omnivorous diet, moderate humidity, etc. The boxies from the south (florida box, gulf coast box) might be sensitive to cooler temps.

You would need to check your state laws about keeping box turtles. My state allows you to have maybe 5 native animals, of the unprotected variety, but you can't buy or sell them. I don't have to worry, since my neighbors know I like turtles and keep bringing me the 3-toes they find in their yards. It's strange that they find so many because I live in the suburbs and there's no wooded areas or other suitable habitat around.
Also check with the local herp club - my club has boxies up for adoption all the time. And sometimes people have hatchlings for adoption too.

The tubs you mentioned seem like a good design.

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Here's my 2c about my favorite but pain in the butt turtle...
I have a pair, Donatello and his girl Jessie. they say turtles don't get lonely, well, he was before her, hes alot more active since he's been with her, so personally I don't reccomend keeping one alone and in M/F or F/F pairs, I think boys will try to kick each other's butts if kept together.
First off they're sweet. Beautiful. And great personalities. My girl had laid many eggs last year but no babies yet.

The big pain is their enclosures. I have them in a 50/50...they need deep substrate to dig and hide and then water deep enough to cover their body. FILTERING is a PAIN IN THE )@(#*$. I've done everything from submersibles to an XP1 canister! FORGET IT! Just stick with a little submersible to move the water and change it often.

Feeding is easy, a big variety of vegetation, fruit and big fat juicy worms, crickets or once in a blue mood a pinkie.

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