Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello All,

I'm new to this forum, but I have looooong experience with green iguanas and various Ctenosaurae.

Well I recently acquired 1.1 Jewelled Lacertas. I've had them for about three months.

I'm afraid they are failing to thrive, because I do not see them shedding.

The background is like this:
I have them on newspaper and glass in a very large tank. Their SVL is about 3 inches, but they are the tiniest lizards I've ever cared for. I'm sure they were practically fresh out of the egg when I contacted the supplier about three months ago.

They have a lot of room in their habitat. I feed them 3/8 crickets, and they do hunt them down. I've often seen them go to their water saucer and bend their heads down to drink. They have a warm end of their tank where the newspaper reads about 140 F., and a cool end that I keep at a steady 80 F. using Spyder Robotics thermostats, and a heating pad under that end set on low. They have hides and a couple of toilet paper rolls. They use all of them, and they walk all around the tank, and even spend some time in the warm spot, which is a refief to me. They seem to favor the mid region of the tank, which is probably about 100 F., but they do walk around, and even spend time, in all the regions of the habitat.

That's background, this is my question: Is it a problem that they do not seem to be shedding?

They have not shed since I've had them. They are extremely tiny, and I assumed that one of the things I would see would be almost constant shedding as they steadily grew. But the way I see it now, I assume they are not growing. If they were, they would be shedding, right? If there is something I should be doing, I have no idea what it is.

Any suggestions?

Roger

They won´t feel secure in such a tank and that may retard growht and shedding frequqnecy.
Please let them run on natural substrate. A sand clay mixutere or playsand would be a good choice.
Also they need hide boxex, preferably connected to entrance tunnels for sleeping and feeling secure.
Some rock piles should further help to give shelter and also help with shedding.
Having to live on newspaper and glass imposes significant stress to the lizards.
That may be the reason for their non shedding.

Hope that helps

Ingo

P.S.: Right out of the egg, they have a total length of a bit morethan 4" and yearlings typically reach between 12 and 14"-that may give you an idea about their age.

Am I right that I should be seeing more shedding?

Thank you foor the help. I was told that brand-new J. Lacertas are prone to eet impactions, and *should* be kept on newspaper instead of particulate substrates for their first 8 months or so. *Sigh*. Different advice. But I tend to more easily believe your advice about the extra hides (i.e. rock piles and some kind of stable tunnel system, because it gives them more security, which can only be a good thing. They obviously are avid climbers, and I haven't yet given them anythiing to climb on. I'm going to fix that deficit this weekend.

I have their tank right next to my living room lounging chair so i can watch what they do closely. It is very interesting - i spend 1/2 hour per day just intently watching them (from a distance of three feet, not with my face up close to their tank). The only time they run for cover is when I move the ceiling aside to stock the tank with more crickets or change the water. The don't react at all when I go sit on the chair right next to the tank. They feel free to hnt while I'm sitting right next to them. My guess was that my constant presence would become a familiar non-threatening background effect to their fight/flight response. I guess I was right when I figured they would get used to that. But maybe not totally, and they need more hides.

They are so tiny that I've been hesitant to pick them up to put them in another container, so I can do major habitat cleaning for cricket droppings, etc.

Any more advice? I'm hungry for advice.

Roger

Iknow that US herpers worry a lot about impaction.
Surprisingly, European herpers generally don´t and still have success.
I do breed these guys since quite some time ( I also published a booklet on their captive care)and I never had a case of impaction with neither babies nor adults even though I do use only natural substrates.
And think about Agamainternational: They have great success with this species and of course do keep all specimens on natural substrates.
These, as most lizards, tend to eat dangerous amounts of substrate if they are in a state of mineral deficiency.
If you take care to avoid mineral deficiency, which of course always is advisable, impaction is definitely not an issue.
The lack of appropriate substrate and hides does stress them, bleieve me!
Its just that you do not easuily see they are stressed.
They quickly learn that they do not have a chance to escape out of your sight and then do not react visibly to your presence.
But I guarantee, If you would measure corticosteroid levels, you would see they are significantly stressed.
If they have the choice to hide or stay outside, they still will get used to your presence and soon won´t hide or run away. But its a much much less stressful way to "tame" them.
Its always a difference if you have the choice or not..
They do best and grow up best, if you proviede housing which as closely as possible imitates al necessary aspects of their natural habitate. And besides climate, substrate and hiding opportunities make an important aspect.

Bestregards

Ingo

fixture. I was dumbfounded. He had disappeared. But he had no chance to get away. I was crushed. Then one day, there he was! Then disappeared again. Finally I saw him scrabble through a space at the end of the fixture. The female didn't yet have voluntary extended hiding, so I got some ABS pipe and hot melt glued it to the floor then snapped it off, so the pipe does not roll around. I slide in a few leaves of newspaper so she's not just skittering around in there.

She got a real bad infection that progressed way faster than I was used to. I'm used to large lizard and slow progression. She had a full body stench. The lab found three virulent bacteria that are very sensitive to Baytril. Every other day I medicate them both with 0.2 of 0.1 ml. Baytril. That's 0.02. Tiny. Every day I have to hydrate her twice with 0.3 ml water, and feed her once with 0.3 ml of some smooth meat-based food the vet gave me, whatever cricks she will accept from me. I modified the tips of some one-ml syringes to make forcing an easy one-man job. But all that attention and handling must be stressing the hell out of her. Once she gets a Clear from the vet, I'm going to leave her alone completely except for offering her crickets from a long hand-made bamboo tweezer.

She hunts like crazy, but has *zero* luck even when I flood the habitat with new 3/8 crickets; she runs up to them and they bounce away. Once in a while she'll take a tweezered one from me. I need a much longer tweezer. I need to spend the time to de-leg a couple dozen crickets so she can get some hunting confidence. The male has better luck hunting, and knows how to drink from a saucer. I've never seen the female drink.

The sheds are there, they are just so wispy that I didn't see them before. The male is quite plump and strong, and now the female is recovered enough to make it hard for me to catch her, and her lateral folds are gone. Catch her from above is wrong I know.

I never have approved of glass tanks and here I am using one. I should build a wood habitat with front-opening doors. I will. A couple of months ago I ditched a 5' wide X 3' deep X 5' tall Ctenosaurus pectinata habitat because I didn't believe I could disinfect it well enough. It took about four hours to build another one, disassemble it and reassemble it in the herp room. It will be much easier to build this small one.

Well anyway, thanks for your time,

Roger