Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i will just rundown the list...

1. why dont rescue shelters ship? i thought they wanted the animals adopted.

2. why are there fees? the rescue shelter didnt pay anything for them, so why should I? perhaps taking "contributions" would be a better idea. after all, you should be happy that someone else wants to care for the animal. when i buy a snake or reptile from a breeder, he doesnt charge me for the food and vet visits the animal had previously.

3. are people who adopt the animals legally held to the contract? i saw a female blood on ksnake a few weeks ago that was given to the first person to come get it (fee was $100) then that same person put an ad up in the classifieds for the snake at a price of $600. whats up with that? I thought adoptions couldnt be sold.

Im sure there are more questions/points Im wanting to make but its late.

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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.0 Black Blood Python
1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Surinam Redtail Boa

OK, I can't answer for everyone, but here's my take on it, and I've been doing turtle and tortoise adoptions for seven years.

1) I do ship, if the animal is healthy enough and the right adopter come along, but I can see why someone wouldn't. It takes a lot of effort to ship, if done properly. I pack an animal well, and drive it to the DHL office myself. That takes at least two hours for me to pack and ship off the turtle. I've seen how at least one business ships it's turtles, and I guarantee you that I spend more time and money on packing my animals properly, and thus my animals are more likely to arrive safe and sound, and that's time and money I'm not making up in "profit" as a business would. I ask adopters to pay the cost of shipping, but that only covers the actual price of the DHL shipment, not the packing materials, gas, and time.

Also, you have to review the legalities of shipping the species to another state. Is it even legal for me to ship a certain species to a certain state? I don't want to find myself facing federal Lacy Act violations for helping an animal find a new home. So that's something else that takes time, finding out the regulations in another state. And let's not forget that shipping is not a 100% safety guarantee. Accidents do happen with shipping. Also, I WILL NOT ship in the dead of winter or middle of summer. I don't care if some businesses and breeders are shipping then, I just won't do it, because the safety of the animal comes first.

2) "when i buy a snake or reptile from a breeder, he doesnt charge me for the food and vet visits the animal had previously." Oh yes, he does. What do you think the cost of an animal from a breeder is? He's trying to make a profit, even if it's just enough to pay for his hobby if he's not a business, so therefore you ARE paying for everything that goes into caring for and selling the animals, plus enough for him to turn a profit, if he's a business, which means you're paying for the him to make a living, too. Maybe most of his snakes haven't been to a vet, but at least the founding breeding stock probably did get a vet check, as least for deworming. One chameleon breeder I know imports some of his breeding stock, and spends a pretty penny with Dr. Stahl to get them healthy enough to breed. In some cases that includes expensive blood tests and culturing to determine what bacteria or viruses the new animals might have, so that he doesn't mix asymptomatic (appears healthy but is carrying a contagious disease) animals with his already established breeding stock. So, even though YOUR purchase hasn't been to the vet, I guarantee part of the price you're paying is to keep the breeding stock healthy. Let's not forget the time and money spent with heating, housing, feeding and advertising, and maybe transporting if you're buying the animal at a show. You're paying for all of that when you buy an animal from a dealer or breeder, otherwise he wouldn't make a profit (or at least pay for his hobby) and wouldn't be able to stay in business (or keep his wife off his back about the cost of his hobby).

Now, with a rescue, you're usually talking about a "home-based" rescue where a person is doing adoption out of his home and out of his own pocket. That means the extra $ for the heating bill, the food bill, and, yes, often a vet bill. That's extra space needed in the home, and extra time out of the day to care for unwanted pets. Maybe extra arguments with the spouse about how much time and money one is spending "on the animals". I have a spare bedroom in my apartment just so I can do rescue. I'd be paying $300 less a month in rent if I weren't doing rescue, and probably $20-$30 less a month in electricity. I've never taken the time to calculate the food bill, but I spend at least $20 a month on produce, and probably $10 a month on commercial food, insects, and frozen pinkies. So, at least $4000 a year, and we haven't even gotten to the vet bills. All out of MY pocket for doing a community service. I typically don't charge a fee for most of my adoptees, but even if I did, I could not make $4000 in adoption fees to even break even. Let's say I placed 45 animals that directly came through my hands last year. Even if I asked a $20 fee for each of those animals (and we all know I couldn't ask $20 for a re-homed slider or box turtle with MBD), that would only be $900. Doing "home-based" rescue usually means that you are going to be spending a goodly amount of your own income on helping animals that need a second chance. It's hard for me to understand why anyone would complain about an adoption fee, when *I'm* the one having the argument with my husband about how much time I'm spending with the animals even while I'm taking a tortoise from someone that didn't do their homework before they purchased an emaciated, imported, parasite-ridden tortoise from a dealer at a reptile show. I could easily have a second part time job and still have more time with my husband than I do now while doing adoptions.

Some people also have the belief that people care more for an animal if they had to pay for it, which is why some rescues will charge $5 or $10 for a slider, just to make sure someone is going to value that animal.

3) As for contracts, I suppose the rescue would have to know the adopter violated the contract and have proof. Then there might be a lawyer involved, and that would take money to hire a lawyer. Don't forget that in CA there was a case of two people who WERE send to prison for adopting animals under false pretenses. They were USDA Class B dealers who were selling adopted dogs to laboratories, and once the public found out what was happening, they found themselves in front of a judge and jury.

Katrina
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Posted by: pythonis at Sun Mar 19 03:43:01 2006

i will just rundown the list...

1. why dont rescue shelters ship? i thought they wanted the animals adopted.

2. why are there fees? the rescue shelter didnt pay anything for them, so why should I? perhaps taking "contributions" would be a better idea. after all, you should be happy that someone else wants to care for the animal. when i buy a snake or reptile from a breeder, he doesnt charge me for the food and vet visits the animal had previously.

3. are people who adopt the animals legally held to the contract? i saw a female blood on ksnake a few weeks ago that was given to the first person to come get it (fee was $100) then that same person put an ad up in the classifieds for the snake at a price of $600. whats up with that? I thought adoptions couldnt be sold.

Im sure there are more questions/points Im wanting to make but its late.

well i agree with you on some things but first of all im shocked that anyone would ever use DHL ("delivers hours late" to ship after the track record they have. it isnt against the law to ship animals through overnight shipping companies provided you have a specific account. yes it is illegal to mail them through the post office but not through a shipping company.

second, what do you mean by "make a profit"? i thought we were discussing rescues not businesses. a rescue should not be trying to make a profit or even break even. a rescue should use the money out of their own pockets (not meaning money from contributions but from earning money at an actual job) and when someone comes and says "i want to adopt this animal" the response from the rescue should be "here is the animal. i have gotten it back into good health. please care for it as much as i have or more." no money needed or asked for. contributions if you accept them but to charge is just wrong. even if it is just to "help with the business". to some people all they want is to adopt the animal in question and that is it. they dont care about your business or the rest of the animals. all they want is to adopt that animal and give lots of time and attentuion to it...not your "business" (oh im sorry...rescue)
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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.0 Black Blood Python
1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Surinam Redtail Boa

Please re-read my message. You mentioned buying from a breeder, which may be a hobbyist or a business (think Bob Clark), and that's what I was referring to when I said BUSINESS. You said that a breeder (again let's say we're talking about Bob Clark) doesn't charge you for the vet care and food that an animal recieves, but he does or else he couldn't make a profit.

As far as rescues charging a fee, how many people do you think can afford to spend an extra $1000, $2000, or double or triple that on community service every year? That's basically what rescue does, is community service. And why shouldn't a rescue break even monitarily (there's no way a rescue could break even in man hours)? I don't, but why is it wrong that someone who spends so much time helping other people and their animals should have to spend all of their own money doing it? Private animal shelters HAVE to break even, and municipal animal shelters have to stay within a budget, or else they couldn't afford to operate. Why should a home-based rescue be considered any different? Let's say a rescuer has $1000 he can afford to spend out of his own pocket a year on taking in and finding new homes for displaced pets. Some of those animals will be with him a few days, some a few years. Some will need nothing more than food, water, space, and heat, others will need hundreds of dollars in veterinary care, special feedings, special substrate, and hours in medication and rehab. Once that $1000 is up, he can't take in any more animals. So, if he charges a fee, he can afford to help more animals than if he didn't charge a fee.

Again, there's that thought that you should charge SOMETHING for an animal, so that it is valued more by the person taking it. I'm not of that thought, but a lot of rescuers are.

As for DHL, they are the ONLY shipper that knowingly ships turtles. I have associates and friends who work in zoos and aquariums, and they only use DHL or Delta Dash to ship turtles. The only problem I've had with DHL (a.k.a. Airborne) in seven years and aproximately 30-40 turtles shipped in that time was a few packages that arrived an hour late, and I or the reciever received a refund if the package arrived late.

As for the USPS, you can ship lizards legally.

Katrina

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Posted by: pythonis at Mon Mar 20 01:45:18 2006
well i agree with you on some things but first of all im shocked that anyone would ever use DHL ("delivers hours late" to ship after the track record they have. it isnt against the law to ship animals through overnight shipping companies provided you have a specific account. yes it is illegal to mail them through the post office but not through a shipping company.

second, what do you mean by "make a profit"? i thought we were discussing rescues not businesses. a rescue should not be trying to make a profit or even break even. a rescue should use the money out of their own pockets (not meaning money from contributions but from earning money at an actual job) and when someone comes and says "i want to adopt this animal" the response from the rescue should be "here is the animal. i have gotten it back into good health. please care for it as much as i have or more." no money needed or asked for. contributions if you accept them but to charge is just wrong. even if it is just to "help with the business". to some people all they want is to adopt the animal in question and that is it. they dont care about your business or the rest of the animals. all they want is to adopt that animal and give lots of time and attentuion to it...not your "business" (oh im sorry...rescue)

Thanks, Katrina, for answering these questions so precisely and patiently. I probably would not have been so nice. As a rescue, I get really tired of the folks that just want a "free" animal. I've done a rundown on my rescue budget on this forum before. I'll reiterate in the short version. Housing, heating, feeding and generally caring for the animals that we take in costs me between $800 and $1500 per month, depending on the time of year and what kind of extra costs we may incur. I do rescue because there is a great need for it and because I feel that it's what I should be doing right now. Helping animals in need has always been a priority in my life.

I work part time as a pharmacy technician. I don't make a ton of money, but I own my home and my vehicle. I don't feel the need for vacations, fancy dinners out, new furniture and carpet, and pretty clothing. Most people that do rescue sacrifice those kinds of things for 2 reasons...they probably can't afford them and they can't take the time away.

I still believe that an animal that is given a value (as in an adoption fee) will be held in higher regard than an animal that is acquired for free. People are more apt to provide the needs to an animal that they've spent some cash on. People that spend $40 or so to adopt an iguana are probably the same people that will spend another $40 for a good lamp that will provide that iguana with adequate UVB. That $40 adoption fee does not even come close to covering my first months investment in that iguana.

It just doesn't make sense to me why people gripe about a reasonable adoption fee on a rescued animal but are willing to pay a breeder a fair price or buy from a pet store where the animals are marked up 200% or more. Are people that do rescue just supposed to be martyrs and not try to recoup some of their costs? Should we not charge an adoption fee because we may have an emotional connection to our rescues?

I just took in a large group of 26 lizards that were left behind when their owner died. This was a major undertaking for us but we either did what we did or the animals were going to be euthanized. There are some really nice animals in this group including 4 Cyclura Iguanas, several pairs of nice monitors, and 9 Tegus. Needless to say, all of these animals are big eaters and my food budget is gonna skyrocket. I'm not gonna just "give away" a Croc monitor that I've rehabbed, heated, and fed $50 worth of rodents to when someone is selling them on the classifieds for $500. Some responsible person out there will be willing to pay a $100 adoption fee for that animal and we'd both feel lucky! What makes this different from a sale is that the new owner will have to jump through all the hoops that any potential adoptor does....application, interview, photos of enclosures, and sign a contract. And yes, those contracts are enforceable.

And, I also ship animals, weather permitting. I use FedEx, UPS, and USPS. Personally, I haven't had a problem yet with any of them. Animals are shipped with a health certificate from a vet, at the new owners expense. Heck, I've even driven 500 miles to deliver an adopted animal!!

to jiffy: i can see your point. however, to the person wanting to adopt the animal they see it like this. you got the animal with the sole intention of adopting it out. you chose to feed it, nurse it, house it, so on and so forth. nobody said you had to. that was your own decision.if a person adopts a reptile from you is it not a relief that you now have less coming out of your pocket? if it doesnt matter to you how much comes out of your pocket then why take in the animals? This is to say that I think a lot of people get in over their heads when it comes to running a shelter. now i have no problems paying an adoption fee as long as it is within reason. i agree with the previous poster about adoption fees for (example) redtails being $100 when he can go to the petstore and buy one for $80. a person that lists an adoption (piebald for instance) with a fee of $3500 is just going to get laughed at.

now maybe i say these things because i am an honest person. I dont feel the need to pay a (mandatory) adoption fee but rather a voluntary one based on how I feel towards the person. If i visit them and see them eating peanut butter sandwhiches while all of their animals have nice clean well heated and clean cages and all in good health then yes i will gladly give a decent donation. however, if i see them eating tbone steaks on fine china while watching a 56" HDTV with surround sound while the reptiles are living in their own excrement in dark tanks and no water, then i will not give a penny.
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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas (normals)
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons (normals)
1.0 Black Blood Python (normal)
1.0 Dumeril's Boa (normal)
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python (normal)
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python (normal)
0.1 Surinam Redtail Boa (normal)

if it doesnt matter to you how much comes out of your pocket to take care of the animals then why speak of getting the money back? im always hearing of people that would rather see a loved one killed than an animal hurt, yet those same people arent willing in the least bit to empty their wallets for the animals (at least not without having some type of reimbursement offered or required).
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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas (normals)
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons (normals)
1.0 Black Blood Python (normal)
1.0 Dumeril's Boa (normal)
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python (normal)
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python (normal)
0.1 Surinam Redtail Boa (normal)

I run my rescue a little different than most people. I'm not licensed or registered or anything like that b/c it costs money. I am good friends with the majority of the animal control officers and they won't take my animals b/c they know that they have a good home. I have children, yes small children. All my cages are locked up. I have a HUGE problem with a lot of rescues that i've seen around. If I chose not to run a rescue, i could live in a wonderful neighborhood and drive a lexus. My car is 25 years old and I live in a poor neighborhood. I charge an adoption fee for SOME animals. it says on my website that I charge for all, but most I don't b/c i know what its like. I visit the petstores on a regular basis to 'check them out'. I paid 200 for a burm that was at the flea market on the ground getting steped on. He was covered with mites and very hungary but still sweet as can be. We do offer to buy herps from people at a much lower price of course, if they're just trying to get rid of them. I do this mainly b/c I know they paid money for them in the first place and have been paying to feed it. I do buy cages and lamps b/c those are expensive and if they're giving me thier animal, why do they still need a cage? I always need cages. I have VERY reasonable adoption fees. I usually charge something like 20 bucks for an iguana, IF its in wonderful condition and has a good attitude, if its mean, i'll probably charge less or nothing. The neighborhood i live in has taught me a lot. There are people that live around me that fight dogs and want to fight my lizards. (morons). I don't want some random person (like them) to say hey! i can get this for free and fight it and make money. that defeats the purpose of a rescue. When i do adopt out an animal, I call after a while and check on the animal. I had a lady call me not too long ago balling b/c her iguana fell and broke its leg and she couldn't pay to take it to the vet. She gave me the iguana and i took it to the vet. She's thinking about getting somehting smaller and less active after that experience. My electric bill runs about 250. Before i started the rescue it was about 60. I by no means want to make a profit, if thats what i wanted I would be breeding to sell not rescuing. I do breed. I've talked with Bob Clark about his Retic/Burm mix. and he's given me some pointers on how to do that. There are people that will gladly pay 2000 for one of these animals. I saw a ball python for 20,000! i saw a burm/rock pythong for 102,000!!!!!!! its crazy. I haven't ever gotten anything 'fancy' i rarely get blood pythons, b/c they cost more to buy in the first place. red tails, and iguanas are running rampant around here. as well as "giants". We just spent over 2000 to convert our garage into something suitable for reptiles all year. they have a wonderful AC out there and the garage is more comfortable than my HOUSE! I do ship animals, so long as its legal. I ask ANYONE that wants me to ship them an animal to email me thier laws for that state. I do look it up myself to make sure its accurate. There are several states you aren't allowed to have 'exotics'. I wont ship there. and of course, they have to pay shipping. I'm about to take an albino burm that cannot be shipped from TN. (I'm in Oklahoma). I'm going to meet the guy half way. thats a 2 day drive for me. She's 20 ft and weight a TON. so theres no logical way to ship her with out spending 500 $. I'd rather spend 150 on gas and give her a great home.
As far as people that resell thier adopted animals. It pisses me off. I am pretty careful who i let adopt my animals. I have an adoption application. you can see it on my website. I wish there was a way that i could insure that the animal wont be sold, but thats just not possible. I do my best to call and make sure they're doing ok. I email them and people are thrilled that I check in with them. The biggest problem I have with other rescues is this: There are a lot of people that wont let you adopt a reptile b/c they have children or rent. i think its the most rediculous thing in the world. I rent and i have children. There are other people that got to thier houses and look at thier cages before they can adopt. If i have a funny feeling about someone, i'll go check or have them email me a picture. Nobody has ever objected. I did have someone that wanted to adopt a 15 ft. burm from me and let it free roam in their house with small kids. i said no. I only have one 'giant' in the house and he is under lock and key 24/7. There is no possible way for him to get out of his cage. any other giants i get or anything with an attitude goes in the garage. We ahve a quarantine room in the house which is also under lock and key 24/7. I'm sure there are a million people out there that just want to come over here and take my kids. My mom works for DHS and believe me would have taken my kids by now if she thought they were in danger. There are very expensive salmonella tests out there. I've had salmonella 3 times. once when i worked at a pet store, once while i was pregnant, and once a few months ago. Its not fun AT ALL!! believe me. I dont take antibiotics for it or anything like that. I pop tylenol all day and immodium (sp*) and get over it in about a week. My kids have never had it, neither has my husband. (neither of them clean cages either). I see no problem with kids and repitles. Im NOT saying everyone should go out and buy an anaconda the day thier first child is born. thats stupid too. like i said, my giants aren't even in the house. I have about 15 small cages in the house ranging from 10 gal. tanks to 120 gal. tanks. I also have 2 custom cages. one is 8ft tall, 4ft wide and 2ft. deep. the other is 2 bookshelves screwed together. with doors on the front. 5 cages in one. its great. they're all sealed seperatly and only used for boas (so IBD doesnt get transferred anywhere). I guess what im saying is i'm like you. I dont think people should be charging 200 $ for an animal that they wanted to resuce in the first place. I have huge vet bills and electric bills and everything like that. my fees aren't that outragous, if i even have a fee. I choose to live in a poor neighborhood so i can rescue herps...
Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

Personally, no rescue that I know eats t-bones on fine china. Many of them have not had a true vacation in years and years. Any trip that I choose to make usually involves education of some sort. I drive a 7 year old vehicle that has served me well, travelling over 140,000 miles, most of them reptile related. I don't know any people involved in rescue that drive BMW's or a Lexus. It's a good thing that I happen to love peanut butter and eggs (and an occasional McDonalds double cheeseburger). It's also a good thing that I can function well on 4-5 hours of sleep a night. I invest a good part of my time, energy, and personal earnings to do what I do. Daily care, food prep, application screening, phone calls, all take up a lot of time and energy (approximately 7 hours a day for me).

I do rescue for several reasons, the foremost being that I love working with these animals. There is a tremendous need for rescue and rehabbing in the reptile pet hobby. If I had the resources I'd probably have 2-3 times as many herps as I have here now but, unfortunately, I have to turn some away. You learn early that you can't help them all.

Requesting an adoption fee is one more assurance that an applicant is serious, responsible, and willing to do what it takes to give an animal a good home. I will never ever come close to recouping the investment that I make in one of our adopted animals and I'm fine with that. The 9 new Tegus will eat far more dollars worth of rodents while they are here than I will charge for an adoption fee for them, not to mention the cost of heating them and vet care. In some cases the adoption fee isn't even enough to cover my transportation costs when I offer to drive partway to deliver the animal to it's new owner. In my eyes the adoption fee is not about the money, it's about the willingness to make a committment and a sacrifice for that animal.

Wow. I believe you need some practice at seeing the "big picture", my friend.
I operated a reptile rescue in south Texas for 4 years in the late 80's, and now I'm contemplating another. I feel like an idiot for contemplating another, but..I am.
If you go to the local dog pound to "adopt" a new dog, you pay a fee, right? Yet this dog was picked up off of the street, or rescued from an abusive home, etc. Not bred or paid for by the pound. The entity that operates the pound, whether it's municipal, county, or private, isn't in the business to make money- I guarantee it. They lose their butts, every year. Ask them.
Yet this is a service that is very necessary, wouldn't you agree? We need organizations to take in our abandoned pets, no matter what type of animals they are.
So it comes down to this- without the fees to offset the expenses involved in rescuing animals, they couldn't afford to operate- and they'd disappear.
I fly for an airline, and my wife is a school teacher- we do pretty well. However, the cost of building the facility we're contemplating now- 100 acres and a series of enclosures capable of handling large reptiles (a current and ongoing problem) and then the cost of maintaining this facility and the animals we take in- would break us. Besides the other - very good- reasons others have mentioned, the animals that are not placeable need to be taken care of for their entire lives. (Ever tried to place a 25 foot Retic or an 18 foot Burm or a 6 foot Nile monitor? Not gonna happen.)
We're going to do this because we love the animals, we have specific knowledge of them...and because we're embarassed by all of the idiots out there who buy a hatchling Burm with the intention of keepin it in a 30 gallon aquarium next to their bed for it's entire life. Asking a reasonable fee (nowhere near the retail price of the animal) offsets costs, helps insure competent and serious adoptions, and allows us to continue the work in general. We'll never make the investment back, or even break even month-to-month.
And frankly, this fee helps us to keep people with your attitude from ever adopting one of our animals.

See? It works.

James

I just cruised the adoption section. What did I see? Animals costing less retail with lower adoption fees from animals costing more retail with higher adoption fees. This appears in my mind to be a business then, not a rescue. As far as costs,well, a mouse is a mouse, a cricket a cricket, veggies are veggies. It doesnt matter if the mouse is being eaten by a baby boa, or an adult cornsnake. Heres a better example. A cricket eaten by a normal leopard gecko the same size as an albino gecko. I dont see the logic behind offering animals with similar needs at different adoption rates which unfortunately appears to pattern around market value with the majority, if not all, the adoption adds I see.

my previous post was in reference to people who honestly want to adopt a reptile. not those looking to get a free snake to breed and make profit from.
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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas (normals)
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons (normals)
1.0 Black Blood Python (normal)
1.0 Dumeril's Boa (normal)
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python (normal)
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python (normal)
0.1 Surinam Redtail Boa (normal)

I would absolutly love to not have to charge SOMETHING for my animals. If I KNEW 100% that they werent going to be mistreated or end up coming back to me in a worse condition than i got them in, I wouldn't charge a fee. I by no means charge 100 for a red tail. thats stupididty. granted, they're selling in pet stores around here for no less than 120 and the highest i've seen was 190!!!! I think thats crazy all in its own. generally, if I get a red tail, i keep it. my husband would love nothing more to have 30 of them. I do adopt a few out and they're great. most of the snakes i've adopted out are to friends and family and then my friends have friends and my family has friends and thats where my critters go, people that I know, know other people and we talk a lot about how their doing. I very rarely get a call from someone i DONT know wanting an animal. The people i do know, still fill out the app. thats just how it works. If I do decide to charge an adoption fee for my animals, again its by no means 100 or 75. the most i ever charged was 75 and that was for a chondropython that was very tame. i almost kept her but they're A LOT more demanding than most other things. She was really messed up when i got her. I paid 50 for her b/c the guy i got her from paid 500$. I adopted her out for 75. the vet bill on her was over 350. and then she needed a prescription refill that was 95 i believe. so really didn't make anything from that. i really could have gotten more for her too. the guy that got her has contacted me about once a month and asked questions, i've gone and seen her twice and he owns a grocery store and last month started donating any fruits/veggies that he cant sell for me to give to the lizards. He offered me 200 for her and i said 75 would be sufficient and then he called and said he could donate the fruit/veggies to help me. that was a special circumstance and its worked out great for both of us. he got a great pet and i get help with my rescue. I even offered to give his 75 back when he said he would donate the veggies he wouldn't let me. I absolutly hate that there are people charging that much of an adoption fee for animals when yes you can buy them from the pet store as little cute babies that haven't had a bad history. i have lots of things that CAN'T be adopted out b/c they're so aggressive. I have a retic coming that will gladly take your face off, I'm only taking her b/c I love the adrenaline and I hate to see someone that doesn't know what theyre doing get hurt. She's not shed good in 6 months and hasnt eatin in 8 months so i have a feeling once i get her soaked good and shed good and then pop a few bunnies in her, she'll calm down. the heat pad the guy was using for her also didn't work when i tried to use it. I still will probably not adopt her out but my opinion might change once i get her fixed up.
Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

I'm honestly rather appalled that anyone would feel that the rescue shouldn't try to recoup some of their costs. How else are they going to continue to take in more animals?

I actually adopted a boa today from a rescue that asked me for a $25 fee after I saw the vet records indicating that they had spent many times that much getting him healthy. I left more, about half of what they'd spent on him, in the hopes that they'll be able to afford to KEEP taking in needy critters. My guy would have been euthanized weeks ago if not for the rescue.

Of course a rescue should try and break even.

For every animal I adopt, I charge an adoption fee about 50% market value to cover med expenses. I make $8 an hour and if I didn't break even, I would be forever poor and not able to make rent. You can't keep rescuing if you keep losing huge amounts of money. No good rescue would just hand a reptile over free to the first person who wanted it. For every qualified, knowledgeabl adopter I go through, there's ten people I say no to. If there weren't a set adoption fee, I'd have a lot more jackasses to deal with.

Personally, I don't ship because if it doesn't work out, I want the animal back. If I found a perfect home, I would ship, but that hasn't happened yet.
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2 RES
1.1 Argentine B/W Tegus
1.1 Iguanaa
1 leucistic texas ratsnake
1 water dragon-RIP Gimpy
0.1 Knight Anole
1 mountain horned lizard
2 Egyptian dune geckos
1 Emporer Scorpion
1 dusky conure
3 australian shepherds
3 cats

my ealier post was based upon the assumption that people trying to adopt are honest people like myself. i guess there are some people who try to get animals at cheap prices which ruins it for us that want to actually help the animal. however, im not so concerned with the animal's well being that i would drive from tennessee to california. thats why i prefer shipping.
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1.1.0 Colombian Redtail Boas (normals)
2.1.0 Sumatran Blood Pythons (normals)
1.0 Dumeril's Boa (normal)
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python (normal)
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python (normal)
1.1 Surinam Redtail Boa (normal)
0.1 Roommate (sigh...okay, she has a corn snake)

Number one reason rescues need to use adoption fees: "Free to Good Home" attracts terrible homes! What kind of applicants do you think rescues would get if they advertised "FREE REPTILES! Come and get 'em!!!" We charge adoption fees on most of our reptile adoptions and we still get a slew of applications we have to throw out. Can you imagine how much worse it would be if everything was FREE?

I know a lot of people are quick to criticize reptile rescues. To these critics, I ask that you would please understand that rescues are fighting a losing battle before they even get started. We take stuff in when nobody else will. We're often the last chance reptiles have before being put down, or released in the wild. We are doing our best with whatever limited resources we have. I don't know if it will ever be an ideal situation...probably not. Rescues are made up of a handful of people who are trying to fix the problems caused by thousands of people who were too irresponsible to keep their pets. We're outnumbered, yes. But that's no reason to give up.

If you think you could help a rescue do better, consider volunteering at one.
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Jesse Rothacker
Forgotten Friend Reptile Sanctuary

www.forgottenfriend.org

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signature edited 8/3/06; contact an admin

I just want to say that people who take their personal time and love and pour it into these animals who have been abandoned and overlooked are much needed! I think that they should be able to charge as much as they think is necessary as they are their animals and I'm sure have built up some sort of attachment. How much would you charge to let go of an animal that you have nursed back to health and have bonded with? I realize that they are doing it for the good of the animal and to find them a home, that's their mission- AND IT'S A GREAT SERVICE TO OUR COMMUNITIES. I know very few people who have the resources to run a rehab facility for free, so by utilizing an adoption fee they are being compensated for caring for your animal and rehabing it to the point that it's adoptable. As far as shipping, some places do ship, but I personally cringe whenever I have to get an animal shipped because let's face it, it's hard on the animals and there are risks. So I understand that they don't want to ship they just put all that effort into getting the animal rehabed!

Anyway...just wanted to say thanks to all those rescuers out there!

I am shocked that the poster of this post can not see that if you charge nothing or too significantly below the retail price of an animal, the main people who will be wanting the animal are people looking for good deals. They aren't the people who did a bunch of research and decided on a specific kind of pet and then once realizing how many of that type of pet are discarded, decided to adopt from a rescue.

Why on earth would a rescue want to spend tons of money, tons of time, and tons of energy getting a pet healthy and adoptable just to give it to someone who's lack of care and knowledge is going to end up killing that pet or sending it back into a rescue?

A person who is willing to pay a decent price for a pet is much more likely to be willing to pay for all the things that pet needs.

Look at iguanas and anoles for example... they dont cost a lot, so people get them and dont bother to spend money setting them up correctly, and they get into their brains that the pet isnt worth vet care because it didn't cost but a few dollars.

Also, doctors choose to be doctors, but they still charge. Your reasoning is illogical. A rescuer chooses to rescue, but if they dont charge, they wont be rescuing for very long.

I could see the looks I woulld get if I went up to a restaurant and told them, "I want a steak for free. Yes, I know you bought the steak, cooked the steak, and opened a diner to allow people to eat the steak... but that was all your choice, so you have no right to charge me for it."

Just my little rantings.

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~Sara~
1.2 ball pythons (Scorpio, Dayzee, and Satan)
1.0 Black-lined plated lizard (Lizzy Butt)
0.1 Burmese Python (Pixil)
1.0 Pacman Frog (Pudge)
5.2 Pet Rats (Emo, Skye, Siam, Lilac, Manson, Spade, and Zilk)
1.1 Dogs (Ozzie and Mandy)
0.1 Cat (Isis)
0.0.1 Synodontis Catfish (Big Spotty Fish)
0.2 Convict Cichlids
0.0.2 Crayfish

Everyone does it different. I rarely charge an adoption fee. What kind of homes do I get that way?

- Adopter with 7000 gallon pond that adopted five adult female sliders over a year. He drove half an hour to pick up two from animal control for me (which he adopted). Two of the turtles came straight from owners who dropped off their turtles to him, so they confirmed the set-up for me. And he sent me pictures of the turtles basking in his pond the next year.
- Kathy, mom to Harpo the Sulcata. Harpo isn't with us any longer, but he lived his last years on TWO fenced ACRES in the summers, with a hill to dig in (compared to the bathtub he was living in with the original owners). Kathy spent a considerable amount of money trying to save him in the last month of his life. She also educated many people along the way.
- Adopter in Indiana of a three-legged male eastern box turtle. Adopter paid for health certificate, fecal, and microchipping, plus the permit from his state to keep a native turtle. He would have paid for shipping, but we had a transport going that way any way.

This is just a sample. If someone's first query to me is "How much for the turtle?", then I'm more leery and might quote a small fee. Still, a bad application is a bad application. Generally if I write my description of the animal well, I get fewer bad queries.

Katrina