Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just took recent pics of these babies the other night and noticed that they have partially ORANGE bellies. I did not notice that when they were hatched. They have developed the orange as they got older. They are 2005 babies.

The daddy is an Albino High White California Kingsnake that I produced in 2000 from 2 High White Cal Kings (Osborne stock). I've never seen orange ever in a cal king.

The mommy is a Ghost California Kingsnake (Palomar, CA) from B.H.B. that is het for albinism.

Both parents are 100% California Kingsnakes.

Has anyone else seen ORANGE in pure California Kingsnakes before?

I do not do hybrids, so don't start there! LOL

Kerby...

Obvious orange.

Kerby...

That's awesome.

I have a thought... Maybe it's like a black bellied albino? Seems likely to me, since the black in an albino would turn the yellow color in cali kings. I would assume it will turn more yellow as the snake grows.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
Updated 3/2/06

The Davis Black Bellies really have brown bellies. Just a misleading descriptive name. I have 2 Albino Chocolate Banana Cal Kings so I can see what an albino brown belly looks like.

My Ghost cal kings have brown bellies. When I bred my male Ghost cal king to other albino cal king females (producing hets for albino) there isn't any hint of orange. There must be a connection with the female Ghost being het for albino. So far the only cal king babies displaying the orange bellies are: Albinos (het for Ghost)

Kerby...

maybe the orange comes from the "Ghost's" blue-ish coloration?

blue = orange when the amel gene is involved?

who know when you breed the offspring from this pairing (Ghost X Amel) back to each other u may end up wit orange in the 2x HomoZ product of this 2nd generation pairing?

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Royal Blue ReptileZ

Home of Bklyn's Finest Brooksi

I am definitely going to continuewith this project.

Maybe the orange will continue developing with age onto the rest of the body/head?

Kerby...

Albino High White Cal King that I produced in 2000 from High Whites that I bought from Steve Osborne in 1998.

Kerby...

A Ghost California Kingsnake from B.H.B. Enterprises. The original was a wild-caught from the Palomar, CA area.

Both genes are recessive (albino and Ghost), although the term Ghost could be misleading in comparison to the term Ghost in other species. A form of "hypomelanism" IMO.

The babies are Albino (het for Ghost) as the mommy Ghost was also het for albino.

Kerby...

MY patternless cal king which is an 05, has orange on the underside of her belly like you are talking about. I picked her up from a reptile show so I dont know what lineage her parents come from, but she does have orange coloration all the way up her under body that has developed more so over the last few months. I will take a pic of her underside tonight if you would like to see it.

And on some of the offspring you can see faint yellow bands, but mine do not have any orange.

Kerby...

Kerby some of my albino easterns get that same look on their bellies but lose it with the next shed. I got all excited the first time I saw it. I hope you have something new.
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Bob Bull
1.3 L.g.getula MD Locality
3.4 L.g.g GA locality
2.3 L.g.g albino
1.4 L.g.g het albino
1.2 L.g.g P-het albino
1.0 L.g.floridana super peanutbutter
0.2 L.g.f. peanutbutter
1.0 L.g.f. N.E. axanthic
1.0 L.g.nigrita
1.1 L.t.hondurensis het hypo-melanistic

They are getting more orange as they get older.

Kerby...

High Kerby, There is too distint reasons for this, if I can remember correctly.

One, I believe I have some lines of kings in the old days that had orange on the bellies and sides, much like lots of eastern kings from the southeast. This disappeared very quickly.

Two, its also caused by a bacterial infection(suedomonis)(sp) infection between the layers of the skin. As mentioned already, it disappears after a shed. If it becomes systematic, after a shed, all the scales over the body will appear wrinkled and pinkish. With the ventrals the worse. The individuals appear to be in lots of pain when they crawl. While very nasty looking, it was never fatal and normally just cleared up. When this systematic infection happened to my kings, it appeared a week or so, after breeding them out from hibernation and before their first cycle.

Once I learned not to hibernate them, I never saw this again. I believe, its a product of stressful cooling and not cooling in itself. As in, I was not cooling them properly, too cool, too long, too dang something.

I believe the kings that had real orangish coloration as neonates were a type of CAl desert king. That trait was lost in the winds of albinism. Cheers

Thanks for your comments Frank. It doesn't appear to be an infection. I have seen belly scales in the past that were a result of substrate problems. And have caught wild snakes that have had bad belly scales.

Now about brumation....I did brumate mine for a long time. I put them down in late October and just brought them up at the beginning of March. I've been doing this for quite some time and never experienced any belly scale problems. Plus, the only cal kings that are showing orange on their bellies are these Albino (het Ghost) cal kings.

I will monitor them and keep everyone updated.

Kerby...

Never seen anything like that.

I'll let you know how they develop. I'll keep e-mailing you pics.

Thanks

Kerby...

C