Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Let's see how good you are. What's the subspecies of the animal in the photo?

Just in case some of you THINK you're really smart, here is a hint to keep you from letting your imagination run wild: The photo was taken this morning in my basement :0).

Which subspecies is it and why?

Mark

www.DrSeward.com

Hi Mark,
As we both know it is impossible to taxonomically differentiate sub species from color alone. But from the complete absence of speckling on the body & tail, and also that no private individual has H.h.charlesbogertti I would say it is H.h.horridum. How ever I am sure if you saw enogh animals from every local that they inhabit you could find a specimen from all four sub species that would resemble the one that you are holding.
Take care brother,
Steve

HorridumAngeli's Beaded Lizard Web Site

I was going to guess H. h. charlesbogerti due to the darkness of the base color, but in most pictures of that subspecies I've seen there isn't so much yellow spotting on the forward part of the body. I agree with Steve in that there is a huge amount of variability in the subspecies. I am also unaware of any charlesbogerti in U.S. private hands, so my next best guess would be H. h. horridum.

Nice photo, Dr Seward
My guess is charlesbogerti. Distinct tailbanding and low amount of speckling./Brgds Janne

Good job! It is charlesbogerti. They are really great looking animals.

Janne, have any of your suspectum ovulated yet?

Mark

Hi Mark,
You did'nt say it was a loaded question lol. I did not know that anyone had been lucky enough to get charlesbogerti Good For You Brother ! Where you lucky enough to get a pair. If so put me on the list. I have one h.h.alverezi in my possession if I can get the other end it would be cool to get both sub species in private hands. I try and call you but i am having a hard time getting through. I will try again today.
Great job,
HorridumA

That's great to hear! How many do you have?

Mark
Thanks. The charlesbogerti looks very nice.
Yes i think some have ovulated and some is in the progress. Here is a pick of some of my females that the mating is over with. Starting to sun more and acting a little bit out of normal.
BRGDS/Janne

That's a tough call to be sure. I think everyone would agree that it is safe to eliminate exasperatum. Which leaves either horridum or alverezi/charlesbogerti. Adding to the confusion is the fact that the animal appears to be a young adult and may not have attained its final pattern. I would guess that it is a horridum based on their prevelance in US collections, regardless it's a nice one!

BTW - I see that you are now producing beadeds and wonder what your thoughts are on working with them? Did you find their husbandry significantly differnt? What about breeding and incubation?

Thanks
Brian

My hunch is that the animal is not alive. Is it a specimen that was previously frozen?
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

maybe I missed it but noone mentioned the length of the tail?

It seems awfully long...which charlesbogertii have non?

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Cheers
Lateralis
"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford

What's the history of this animal and is there any possibility there's a breeding pair? Are you the owner?