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Question for Ingo

Nino Jun 26, 2006 09:44 AM

Greetings

I have two pairs of T. lepidus obtained 2 years ago as hatchlings at Hamm terraristik fair in Germany. They are very healthy and practicaly fully grown now (males about 60cm, with huge heads)and I plan to breed them next spring after hybernation. There's only one problem: their coloration is far from beautiful and vibrant greens and blues of their parents. My animals are brownish to olive green, and one female is totaly brown with beige markings on her flanks. Animals have grown in indoor glass terrariums under artificial lightning (combination of reptile 5.0 UVB fluorescent tubes, standard household fluorescent tubes and incandescent bulbs)on mixed diet of crickets, roaches, zoophobas worms, occasional mouse and variety of soft fruit (they particularly like grapes and various berries). All food is regularly supplemented with high quality D3/calcium supplement. I have spoken with several breeders already (Bert Langerwerf included) but they were of little help. After much reading I suspect that their dull coloration might be result of poor light intensity in my terrariums (compared to sunlight). What do you think about it?

Thank you in advance!

Replies (9)

Ingo Jun 28, 2006 02:40 AM

Yes, with your light regime one would expect a slower development of adult colouration. If you had a luxmeter, you would certainly find that there is no area in your tank which exceeds like 3000 Lux. Preferably you should have 20-100000 Lux at the basking spots. Thats why IMHO metal halides are a must for these -as for all heliophile- lizards. Add a 150 W metal halide (everything between 3000 and 5500 K is OK) and you will see the difference after a few weeks.
Keeping the lizards outside in summer will have the same benefit.
Did you buy these animals from me?
If so, they should in fact turn brilliant green.
If they stay dull, even under metal halide lights or outside, you may have aquired T. lepidus nevadensis or intergrades with blood from this subpsecies. These animals do show very little green. Even as adults they keep a greyish colouratuion but normally grow larger than the nominat subspecies.

Hope that helps

Ingo

Nino Jun 28, 2006 05:25 AM

Thank you for your answer Ingo.
I bought animals from Michael Kiesel of "Gecko" from Oldenburg. I'm not sure which subspecies they are, since papers say only "T. lepidus (Perleidechse)". Several days ago I bought Osram HQL-R lamps with colour temperature of 3500K, and light intesity 3000 lm. I've been talking with some marine aquarists about usage of metal-halide lamps and they talked me out of it since they, apparently, produce a huge amount of heat and it's a real risk for terrarium to become overheated.

Ingo Jun 30, 2006 01:02 AM

Hi,

HQL is not the best choice. HQL bulbs do contain Hg as the only component of metal vapour and hence need fluorescent coating of the glass to produce visible light. This results in quite a loss of intensity and also only allows a discontinuous spectrum with larger gaps between narrow emission peaks. So their light efficiency is limited to like 40-50 lm/W and their colour rendering poor. Due to their significan heat emission still a meaningful light source to use for a basking spot also, quite surprisingly, many reptiles do love them), but not a good choice for the only representation of sunlight in a tank. A metal halide where the Hg is supplemented by carefully selected metal iodides (and/or -bromides)like for the Osram HQI or better HCI or Philliops CDM types (sorry, do not knowe much about respective US brands and names) is much, MUCH better. Due to the high light efficiency (80-100lm/W) these lamps do produce much less heat per watt than all other light sources. So overheating is definitely not a problem. (for the fishh keepers heat in fact may matter, if they replace 80 W of fluorescent lighting by 150 W metal halide....but thats a different story...also take care not to buy the 10 000 K bulbs, coral keepers use) In contrast, you often have to supplement these lights by eg halogen bulbs to reach the desired basking temp.
In Europe, since a couple of years these type of bulbs have become the gold standard for lighting in the enclosures of diurnal reptiles. Today, already a lot of experience has accumulated regarding their usefulness, effects on reptile behaviour an health and people still are very enthusiastic about them. Only by using these bulbs you can implement basking spots at about 100 000 Lux which equals the brightness, even heliophile herps do experience in their natural habitat.
Since the advantages are that obvious, the experiences that plentiful and good and especially for chameleons, Uromastyx, Pogona, north american desert iguanids, lacertids and you name it , the differences in behaviour, colour and health are clearly visible, I am always surprised to hear that these bulbs are still not widely used for herpetoculture in the US.
Maybe this is relaed to the fact that US herpers for waht reasons ever tend to ignore or not read european -and especially german- papers on herpetoculture
Its more than wort the try, believe me.
If you have doubts, lokk at the respective spectra, light yields and overall intensities. Nothing better on the market today (but I am still waiting for the sulfur vapour lamps to come.. :D )

Best regards

Ingo

Ingo Jun 30, 2006 01:08 AM

BTW: I use metal halides in all my tanks and even the tiny 10g tanks for hatchlings equipped qith a 35 W HCI are far from overheating.
For my adult T. lepidus I am using 150 and 70 W versions as long as they are kept indoors (in summer they are outside).
For my largest tank ( a bit larger than 1100g) I do use 1 x 150 W HCI plus 2 x 70 W HCI plus several T5 light tubes and I still have to provide extra heat to keep the necessary temps.

Ci@o

Ingo

Nino Jun 30, 2006 03:24 AM

Thank you very much for such a competent and thorough answer Ingo!

I already bought bunch of HQL lamps for my terraria and installed half of them (dammit, I spent a fortune on them), but I'm still willing to try metal halides. Since I live in Europe, mentioned brands of lamps are, more or less, available to me so I can choose between Osram HQI or HCI and Sylvania HSI-TD lamps (70, 150, and 250 W). Could you, please post some pictures of some of your smaller tanks just to give me the idea of the general setup of such lightning?

P.S. I just ordered your T. lepidus book

P.P.S. After browsing some pictures on the internet (especially Siegfried & Erica Troidl's lacerta.de website)I'm pretty sure your assumption that I might have T. lepidus nevadensis was correct. My animals look almost identical to those i find on lacerta.de!

Nino Jul 01, 2006 05:20 AM

OK, I did it...

I finaly bought metal halide for my big terrarium - Sylvania HSI-TD 150W type with 4200 K colour temperature and 13 000 LM light output. When I ran it for the first time (today) I was...stunned to say the least! Colours are amazing and light intensity is almost like natural sunlight on a clear summer day! I opted for a fixture with external ballast which I placed outside terraria to reduce heat build-up. On a basking spot (cca 60 cm from the lamp surface) temperature seems to be around 35, and I plan to raise it a bit (to around 45) with additional halogen reflector. Lamp of this type is pretty expensive (it costed over 200$) but it is worth every penny!

ingo Jul 02, 2006 06:10 AM

You see, the difference is obvious.
So you´re hooked, I guess
One more tipp: Being patient and check back often, you can aquire metal halide lamps and bulbs at ebay for cheap. Typically what you have goes for 30-40$ but I also have aquired several lamps for less than 10$ or a dozen 70 W HCI bulbs for as low as 10$.

Good luck

Ingo

Nino Jul 03, 2006 10:52 AM

Hehe...I'm hookeed, alright.

Thank you for the tip, and for everything indeed.

Best regards

Nino

Austin-1 Oct 28, 2006 10:48 PM

Hi, Ingo-
You say that US herpers should look into more info from Europe/Germany. I've been really interested in the info you have over there, but how do you find it? European herpetoculture seems to be a ways ahead of US herpetocultur, so I wish I could find alot of European info sources.
Thanks,
Austin
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