Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I took a few photos today, this is the same lizard from yesterday, the one you said doesn’t look good. I agree I doesn’t look half as good as some of my other gonos, but considering its past history he’s splendid. Tell me what make you think he’s in bad condition?

This animal has good body weight, he feeds well and is very active.
This morning I left him in my yard a few hours, he bathed and basked in my bird water fountain then spent time in the flowers eating a few, afterwards he spotted the berries and decided to climb up and get some, I coaxed him on my arm with some berries and returned him to his cage.

I don’t usually take my animals outdoor, but wanted to show you he’s ok.

np

It’s not the first time your ignoring me, I find this rude and unpleasant.

I took these shots for you and others to enjoy
I think it was you that once said to experiment with foods? Wee I did and both gonos and acanthosaura eats lots of fruits and flowers, should I say this on this forum, or am I jeopardizing the health of lizards belonging to keepers reading this?

Pleas tell me as you seem to know what information’s should be fed to members of this community. Help me understand your way of thinking.

Hi Jobi,

first, on these pics that animal in fact looks good!!
I really do not want to be rude, but I obviously have a completely different few on herping than you have. My philosophy on this was formed by long standing herpetocultural experience in Europe (which provides a quite different herpetocultural environment than northern America) and a biologists view on herpetoculture.
From personal experience, I have learned that we two do not get along well in such discussions and that I have no chance to convince you of anything I consider important.
So why keep on talking?
Anyhow, since I started, at least one minor point:
With respect to acceptance of vegetarian matter, to my experience neither Gonos nor Acanthosaura do eat significant amounts -if at all- fruits or veggies voluntarily.
But of course they snap everthing you offer if you hold them in your hands...
Also dehydrated animals may quite readily eat such food as is well known for quite a number of principally non herbivorous species.

I love herpetoculture and I try to offer my herps the best conditions possible. My view on these does differ significantly from yours and again, we quite obviously do not come together at all.
So after some annoying -at least for me- experiences, I decided not to continue discussing herpetocultural aspects with you.
After all, I do not want to be rude but I also do not want waste my time talking stuff, the adressed person does nothing but ignore or call irrelevant.
So please accept my decision which makes it easier to me to enjoy my way of herping.
This statement does not exclude that I may say a few lines if I think that a quotation given here may be potentially detrimental if a newbie reads it and too eagerly follows the statements given there.

best regards

Ingo

First ever sins my first post on this forum, I intentionally posted to annoy you, yes it’s true!
I targeted you as the most competent keeper, got under your skin like some cyber nematode. Why? Simply because you are selective in whom you want to help, like many experienced keepers I know you are closed to new ideas, it’s your way or the highway.

I agree with your husbandry, in fact I will eventually set all my lizards in a more natural and present way, as for dehydration I assure you none of my lizards are dehydrated in anyway, they eat the flowers and fruits with relish as if it’s the base of there diets. They choose to eat them of their own, I did not force them or starve them in anyway.

Dehydrated or underfed lizards do not reproduce consistently as mine do, there’s a reason why I don’t keep them humid at all times, first they live in relatively dry forest with a wet monsoon season, there cycle starts with mating rituals and displays, they sent mark territories to recruit females and repel males, this sent marking can only be don on dry surfaces, every time it rains they must sent mark again. For this very same reason varanids keepers are failing to reproduce Asian species.

Also these dragons don’t drink well when kept in very humid conditions, this is probably the reason peoples need al kinds of water gimmicks, think about it, they can travel a few 100ft to drink in nature, why can’t they find water in a small enclosure?

I like you the way you are, I much prefer to annoy you and get your attention then to be unnoticed, you may not like to be challenged or questioned, in fact I think you prefer being left alone in your little happy world, however its challenges and questions that keeps us going forward, this allows progress.

You my friend can count on me to stir you up!
Thanks for allowing me to do so.

I know you are closed to new ideas, it’s your way or the highway. ..

That in fact stirs me up

I do not hope its true. If it qwere too true, I -just to give an example- would not have been able to find out which -somewhat strange- conditions gekko grossmanni need to breed productively. A piece of work I have been awarded for with the Alfred A. Schmidt Preis from the DGHT (german society for herpetoloygy and herpetoculture ).
Not that I want to show off, I just want to document that I AM open to new ideas and ready to try a lot.

And If you doubt that I readily share information, please fell free to visit the DGHT forums at DGHT.de -they do have an english section....which sadly is way too dead ever since

Anyhow, to come back to the point: When it comes to new thoughs about setup conditions I do normally include information about microclimates in herp habitats. And with respect to the description of G. chamaeleontinus habitats you gave, my informations do differ.

But that still dos not invalidate your observation that your animals do take a lot of vegetarian matter voluntarily. It an important info, which you should thoroughly document and publish asap...

Best regards

Ingo

I just had a few minutes between two meetings...

Don’t worry about the typos, thanks for taking the time to post.
Really I appreciate this as I do with all your post, if I wasn’t interested in what you have to say, I wouldn’t post at all.

Ok that was rude of me, I take back these words.

As for the habitat we will know soon enough, my next trip is java.

Right now I am still experimenting with husbandry, feeding and incubation.
I can only share my observations none officially, at least till I know more.

From my fish background. Certain species of South American fish were considered total canivores until an expedition studied gut content in the wild. It turned out the majority of the gut was vegetable. Much more than could be accounted for by grabing some veggies with their prey. I've cleaned my share of bass and know there will always be some veggies accidentally swallowed. This was not the case here. Has a gut study in the wild been done on these lizards? In what season? What was blooming and what prey was available? All these questions need to be answered before you can say a species is a total carnivore. What I will eat would vary by how hungry I am and what is available. These fish tended to live much longer after being switched to a more balanced diet. I wiil try this cautiously with my dragons. This would not be the first time "accepted knowledge" was totally wrong.

Mike

Your right Mike…
All these questions and more should be addressed, however for having been the only one crazy enough to go out in the field, making observations when none wanted to get away from camp in anything less then favourable weather, I know and understand why studies are merely a piece of the puzzle.

It took me one year of study with captives to understand, that uromastyx from morocco to Egypt are depending on migratory locust for there source of protein, this natural event triggers life cycle. Yet most experts will tell you they are obligatory herbivores, some will even say they need dry conditions, yet there habitats are over ancient river beds, and moisture is available to them year round.

We keepers are finding new information every day, perhaps it’s our love for the animals that drives us to a better understanding?