Reptile & Amphibian Forums

According to an email from a concerned keeper, I shouldn’t post advice on this forum, considering my less then a year experience with these dragons, and the fact that there husbandry has already been laid down by other herper’s.

Well id like to say something before my retirement on this forum!

First I don’t give advise, I only offer alternatives ( new ideas ) I am fully aware that what works for me might not work for others, conditions vary from keepers to keepers and they don’t have the same animals, therefore exact replication of husbandry is unlikely.

Secondly, yes I agree others have more experience and have written good care sheets, obviously these are intended for your lizards health. However no husbandry is set in stone, there will always be room for improvement, I am not saying that I offer improved husbandry over what’s been written, no I am only sharing my personal observations and ideas, you the keepers should be responsible enough to know what works for your lizards.

Why do I feel comfortable with sharing my work? Its very simple.

I have been working with reptiles for almost 3 decades, not only keeping and breeding them, but mostly studying them, how there behaviours, how they eat, how they deal with diseases and how they use environmental tools.

Sure I am new to these dragons, however iv made 1000s of observations that leads to a better understanding of them, little details that would pass unnoticed by most keepers, are to me of great importance, my work is to brake down these details and understand there implications.

I could post all day and every day about something that’s never been documented on these dragons, not because I know so much or have read a lot, but simply because I know how to read behaviour.
Subtle details like this arm thing ( see photo) allows me to learn many things about natural behaviours, they do this when there body has reached thermal max (about 88f )

Any paramedic well tell you that the best way to cool a heat stroke victims is to apply ice to the wrist, this is exactly what these lizards are doing, except they don’t use ice, the combination of moisture and wind is all they need to lower there temps to a more comfortable level. Lick your wrist and stick your arm out the window and you will understand what I am saying here.

Sins these are ch babies kept in a closed environment, its easy to figure out that this is an heritage behaviour, not a captive induced behaviour. Such details must be taken into consideration when our goal is to improve husbandry.

Thanks for letting me vent.
Rgds

Sorry to hear you have received hate mail! Too bad people can't post on the forum instead of attacking via email. I think that the forums, no matter what site they are on, are for the exchange of ideas. You take what is there or you don't!

I know that on some of these forums things can get pretty heated but in my opinion it should stay on the boards. Whatever needs to be said should be said in the open where everyone can voice their opinion.

Personally, I do find some of your ideas hard to grasp but I am trying some of the changes and am having good results. I stated a few threads down that I don't use moving water anymore, haven't for a long time. This is a practice I stopped before you brought up the issue. So, I hope the person who wrote you can read this and see that even I do things in conflict with my own caresheet. My caresheet is a guideline and not a bible. It has been the best known way to this point but that doesn't mean we should stop learning.

I have also added the basking spot and am finding that it is making a huge difference in one group of armata. The group of 1.3 larger animals are much brighter colors and are more active. They are eating much better as well. They have been holding their own for some time now but since I added the 40-watt bulb for them to bask during the day there is a huge improvement and I feel that they are more than holding their own, rather they appear to be thriving. The smaller 1.2 animals are not responding as well but I will give it time and see what happens.

I don't have bulbs on all of my babies yet but have always used uth pads to create warm areas for them. However, I did add a 25-watt bulb over one corner of the tank with the crop-tailed leps and so far I find there are always 2 animals under the light. I am also noticing that these animals who had almost no tail left after I had to amputate seem to be developing nicely and tonight when I was checking them it seems to me that their tails are longer than I recall. I am not going to say that they are regenerating, perhaps it is just that they are growing in ratio to the rest of the animal, but regardless these animals are developing and growing out very nicely for the poor start they got off to.

So, although I don't know if I have my mind around all of Jobi's ideas, I do know that what I have applied has had good effects, not bad. So, should you Jobi give advice? Why not? Should others follow the advice? That is for each to evaluate and decide for themselves!

One could just as well ask if I should have written a website and an article when I had no biology background and no previous reptile breeding experience. But then what I wrote was superior to what had been published on this species previously. Is what I wrote cast in stone? No way! I hope that cumulatively we all contribute new findings and learn to keep these animals in the best possible setting so that they can flourish.

So, I hope the author of your email is reading this and can see that we don't all have to agree but maybe we should keep an open mind. If we don't agree with something perhaps we have to keep it in perspective and just let it go. If you think an idea is stupid, don't use it!

Hope I don't get any bad emails for this! ; )
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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

I don’t think it was a hate mail, he was expressing concern for his lizards nothing more.
However he did say that I used others photo and that to him discredited all my opinions.

I showed these lizards because they are more colourful then mine, it was to show color potential of these dragons, not to advertise or any other reasons.

Hear are mine, the yellow female was mated with my young yellow male, the blue female is gravid, I know this is the start of a color morph in tree dragons.

Some of my babies are already much more colourful then these or the adults I posted before. And for those interested I have orange and red as well.

I agree with you on sharing ideas, I pity those who coward there opinions and those to lazy to progress.

Rgds

I truly hope you do not stop posting here. You have stated many times that you are doing research. These are not your pets. That what you do may not be for everyone or may even upset some of us.

When I said I was going to change my incubation heat you told me not to. That I might loose some eggs and you knew I didn't want that. You wanted to study it more.

I have gradually added heat and removed moving water also with good results.

You have stated many times that you are new to this dragon. I admire your 30 years experience. (It's alot more than I have.) It has taught you to find the small changes and differences that occur. Things that many of us wouldn't even notice.

Bonnie

Dont sweat it jobi. Anyone can learn anything from anyone. There is no reason to stop posting there are alot of people like me who need people like you if not we would never learn anything new. I noticed alot of times some of these forums turm into online arguements and end up being about personal reasons not herps. If what you are doing works keep doing it. There is a first for everything and who better to study these animals than someone who has so much expieriance in the field. to me you are still the GURU!