Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've always wanted a pair of texas horned lizards. Their has been quite a few in my area latley and they look very healthy. They always tell me they can survive and thrive on other insects. Is this true, if I new it was and they weren't going to die a few months later I'd jump on them. Anyone know for sure if it is? I can easily start up some ant colonies, but It how would I get the rigt number of ants out? I imagine they need to eat 30-40 ants per day right?

Thanks.
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When I say "they" I mean the pet store employees.
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Snakes
1.1.0 Corn Snakes
0.1.0 Grey Banded Kingsnake
1.1.0 Amazon Tree Boas
0.0.2 Mackolts Pythons
2.1.0 Colombian Boa Constrictors
0.1.0 Jalisco Milksnake
1.1.0 California Kingsnakes
1.1.0 Vietnamese Blue Beauty Ratsnakes
0.0.1 Egyptian Royal Diadem Snake
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
2.1.0 African House Snakes

Geckos
1.2.0 Leopard Geckos
2.1.0 Crocodile Geckos
1.1.0 Tokay Geckos
2.1.0 Fan Foot Geckos
1.1.0 Pictus Geckos

Assorted Lizards
1.1.0 Inland Bearded Dragon
0.1.0 Indonesian Blue Tongue Skink
0.0.1 Mangrove Monitor
0.0.2 Leopard Lizards
0.0.2 Jeweled Curlytail Lizards
0.0.1 Beaver Tail Agama
2.1.0 Veiled Chameleons

Other
0.0.1 Spectacled Caiman
0.0.2 Western Painted Turtles

Take it from me. I'm from Texas, and I kept a THL without ants for about 2-2 1/2 years. Now I now longer support that diet. It is too dangerous for them, and I think it reduces metabolism and holds up growth. They can survive on fewer harvester ants than most Horned Lizard species, but they are still specialized harvester ant eaters, and as such, commonly require 60% or better of their diet to be harvester ants. Crickets, mealworms, and other common insect feeders, are far too high in fat and chitin...and far too lopsided in calcium/phosphorus ratio to be healthy. These insects given in excess as a primary meal are not healthy for the lizard. It may also set up fatal conditions. If not from the added stress of the organs handling excessive fat, then from a digestive blockage.

It is also common that pet store people don't know a rip about what they sell, and that with Horned Lizards they like to muddy the waters on just what it is they need to eat. That's because harvester ants aren't as easy to buy everywhere and they cost more than crickets....so if they can get you to think they can live on something else, then they make money selling the lizard. The lowly employee may not be conspiring in this manner, but somewhere along the chain they have been lied to by the person wanting to make the buck, or took the word of the nitwit that caught them in the first place who doesn't know jack.
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"A man that should call everything by it's right name, would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy." The Complete Works of George Savile, First Marquess of Halifax 1912,246

Great reply fireside3! I agree with everything you said.And the best part was this quote
"The lowly employee may not be conspiring in this manner, but somewhere along the chain they have been lied to by the person wanting to make the buck, or took the word of the nitwit that caught them in the first place who doesn't know jack."
Man is this not the truth or what!
-Ryan

Gentleman--the other obvious thing to me, is if they have THL's which state are you in? These are protected animlas and shouldn't be sold by a pet shop? Total agreement with the approach as well. I have kept THL's many years ago and even on a mixed diet with ants they in my opinion do better with as much ants as possible. Also some THL's will refuse ants from certian areas. Or I have seen this in my experience. It is my opinion that the THL form Texas is also harder to maintain because of humidity issues, a straight deseret type cage is not totally acceptable either. So my sugestion if your going to do a horned lizard, research them them and make a wise decision and many of the gentlemen on the forum can make a good suggestion. Last of all THL care takes a lot of commitment and expense, if your not willing to do it, then don't. There are too many other lizards and reps that are easier and less high maintenance out there. If your a novice I suggest you try some other lizards first befiore getting into any horned lizard. Obviously we all start somewhere, but my biggest concern is for the HL population and their welfare, please go to our web-site and research all you can so you can be up on husbandry and care.Cheers!!!!!!
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Phrynosoma.org

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

You are of course right Lou.
However, he kinda indicated that the pet store is where he was seeing them. And we know that pet stores in Texas and other states where they are protected, know better and don't carry them. At least the guy spending enough money to have a store front. Especially in Texas. Everybody knows you can't sell them, and I pitty the fool who I catch doing it here. I go into the local Petco and they say they're computer tells them that "horny toads" are "endangered". Yep, I leave it just like that. Too many people walking in with HL's they find, and who wouldn't understand the difference in legal terminology.

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"A man that should call everything by it's right name, would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy." The Complete Works of George Savile, First Marquess of Halifax 1912,246