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Is anyone knowledgeable and/or very familiar with this snake? I just bought it yesterday - he's eaten three pinkies and is very nice, but I can't find much info online. Some information indicates he may be venomous - but the venom is not harmful to humans. Other Websites say he is not a Radiated Rat Snake (anymore) due to genus/species changes - but is a Coelognathus Radiatus. He is only my 2nd snake - I was lucky with my first, an Amelanistic Corn - who is sweet and has never struck, hissed, rattled, or anything except love on me.

Sorry, it appears that I'm asking about my albino corn - I'm asking about the rat snake for which I don't yet have a photo.

Is anyone knowledgeable and/or very familiar with this snake? I just bought it yesterday - he's eaten three pinkies and is very nice, but I can't find much info online. Some information indicates he may be venomous - but the venom is not harmful to humans.

I have never heard of Coelognathus being venomous. Where did you hear this?

Radiated Ratsnakes aren't as popular as some of the ther Asian ratsnakes because they have a reputation for being very nervous/aggressive captives. I don't know if that is true of captive born animals.

If you search this forum, you will see some posts about them occasionally.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Thanks for replying. On almost every Website under that name (Coelognathus Radiatus) discusses studies they have done identifying the Three-Finger alpha-neurotoxins (3FTx). They say that the venom is no more harmful to a human than a bee sting (unless, of course, you are allergic to it) but that it would do damage to a frog! They also say they are rear-fanged. This snake was very jumpy in the store while trying to get it out of its cage, but once in hand was very calm. Sometimes he moves fast when I try to get him out of his home here (only 2 days now) but he doesn't get crazy, and he never strikes. Once he's in hand, he is very content to wrap around my fingers - lets me stroke the top of his head and chin - I hope to have a picture tomorrow. I will definitely keep checking the Web site - I did find that they get 4 to 6 feet and need a bit larger home than a 40 breeder because they like to move a lot. I also heard they like high (60% to 80%) humidity and lots of hidey spots. But that's about it.

>>Thanks for replying. On almost every Website under that name (Coelognathus Radiatus) discusses studies they have done identifying the Three-Finger alpha-neurotoxins (3FTx). They say that the venom is no more harmful to a human than a bee sting (unless, of course, you are allergic to it) but that it would do damage to a frog! They also say they are rear-fanged. This snake was very jumpy in the store while trying to get it out of its cage, but once in hand was very calm. Sometimes he moves fast when I try to get him out of his home here (only 2 days now) but he doesn't get crazy, and he never strikes. Once he's in hand, he is very content to wrap around my fingers - lets me stroke the top of his head and chin - I hope to have a picture tomorrow. I will definitely keep checking the Web site - I did find that they get 4 to 6 feet and need a bit larger home than a 40 breeder because they like to move a lot. I also heard they like high (60% to 80%) humidity and lots of hidey spots. But that's about it.

The radiated ratsnake, Coelognathus radiatus, is considered "technically" venomous by some venom researchers (see Dr. Frye), because certain toxins have been found in their saliva that are associated with venoms of front-fanged snakes. I don't think Coelognathus is a rear-fanged group of species, however, because none of them appear to have any rear fangs. I'm not sure if they have any enlarged teeth at all. I would be a little worried about getting bit by them, however, especially if I was allergic to venoms of any kind. They're not considered dangerous to humans, but I wouldn't push it just in case.

In addition to the ecological data you already have, be aware that radiateds are mostly a tropical snake and don't do well in cold environments. They probably don't need a brumation and may not tolerate temps below 70*F very well. They are also pretty prolific, from what I've heard, and could reproduce almost anytime of the year.

Radiateds move quickly because they actually have characteristics of both ratsnakes and racers, those two groups having had an ancient common ancestor. They also can be very defensive. They will sometimes hold their heads up and strike. Radiateds can puff up their throats too. Good luck with it....

TC

Thanks for your response - it clarifies the venom issue. Here are a couple of pictures of him/her, in case you are interested.

I have a 05 pair of these ... both CB ... Both are around 3 feet long and feeding on small mice now. I can vouch for them not being venomous in that I have been seriously chomped by the pair of them with no effects other than resembling a pin cushion afterwards. They do tend to bite and hold on though, so remember not to jerk your hand away or you may damage teeth. Mine let go after about 5-10 seconds.

Mine are now at the stage where they are comfortable with me and let me pick them up quite readily, but if anyone else puts their hand in the tank, they go beserk and strike repeatedly ... they do seem to be intelligent animals and capable of recognition, presumably from scent and will never take their eyes off you when you enter the room. On removal from the tank, the neck will inflate at the slightest movement ... mine HATE people walking passed them. This brings on the corkscrew shaped defence pose complete with gaping mouth.

Amazingly, when I have been bitten, they have done so without warning. None of the defence posturing stuff which appears to be mainly bluff, until you are daft enough to get too close .

They require quite high humidity, coming from rain forest regions, I spray mine with water daily and increase this to twice a day when shedding.

They are beautiful snakes, probably my second favorite species after russians. Their charm is certainly in their attitude and intelligence ... and they have plenty of both

Another thing about radiateds is that they have been known to play dead, like a hognose, for instance. A lot of very cool behaviors and adaptations with this snake making it a very interesting species, indeed!

PS: In Thailand they often call them coconut snakes because they hide under coconut shells a lot.

TC

Hi Terry,

Have you ever seen them do this ?

I have seen the pictures and read about it in "Monograph of the Colubrid Snakes of the Genus Elaphe Fitzinger" - Schulz, but have never witnessed one doing it...

Guess I am not scary enough

I'm starting to get a little scared now! How old (big) were yours when you got them? Mine still hasn't struck or puffed up but since they strike with no warning, I should probably be a little more cautious. He really does seem to recognize me once I get him out of his cage. He doesn't strike or race away when I put my hand in his cage, but once I touch him, he will try to run until I get him completely out and he realizes he is sitting on my hand. Then he calms down just fine. He likes to "sniff" my glasses when I am wearing them, which is apparently a bad habit that I will stop now, since I'm starting to realize that I am not fully appreciating this snake's attitude. My albino corn really spoiled me as a first snake because he is so tame - he's like a snake's version of a labrador retriever. I am glad I got the Radiated, though, he will definitely be different then the corn snake.

From your pictures I would say they were about the same length as yours when I got them. The male has always had attitude, he bit me 4 times the first time I held him at the breeders the female started off very calm indeed but has grown bolder as she has gotten bigger. They are now approaching three feet. At the moment, mine are in high sided cricket tubs with bendy branches... She uses hers a lot and often sleeps on it whereas he rarely climbs at all... not that I have seen anyway... he may do at night

Letting it near your face would really be a big no-no I think... With most of my rats I would certainly not want any near my face if something startled or scared it.

This is my female laying next to her kitchen roll hide for size comparison ....

And the male doing a bit of neck inflation ... He was in a relatively good mood though

Thanks for the pictures! Your male looks just like mine - is the female really as yellow as she appears in the picture - or is that due to lighting? I took mine (Hayden) out tonight when a friend was over and while we were sitting at the table, I set him down - he crawled toward her, looked at her, and took a big poop. He has pooped several times since bringing him home, just not on me after the first day. Maybe they dislike strangers, or Hayden just knows I'm the treat lady?

I really hope he stays calm with constant handling - but it sounds like I'll be in the minority (lucky) if he does!

I'm going to get some outdoor pictures tomorrow so I can post them this weekend. Thanks for the response!

Yes she really is that yellow I believe they call it a lemon phase. They are both 100% het for albino too so I am looking forward to breeding them in a couple of years time

I have not seen an albino version of one yet - does it lose the black only, or black and green?

I just got a book today from B&N - I ordered it online - about rat snakes - I hoped it would have the radiateds in it - and one of them is on the cover - so it should definitely be IN the book! I'll let you know if I discover something interesting.

Also, what size cage do you have them in? Mine is very small still, so he's starting out in a 10-gallon tall with vented sides - I have little tree limbs in there, but he doesn't climb. He only hides. I heard they were partly aboreal - will I do better with a long and low tank or a tall and skinny tank?

I've owned three, one a wild caught normal and the other two were a pair of albino's. The wild caught was a monster. He bit as often as he possibly could and always puffed up the throat, which really is pretty cool. He got around 6' long, was beautiful and a good feeder on frozen thawed, and still to this day was the meanest snake I've ever owned. The albino pair were incredibly hyper as hatchlings, I had to endure a full year of being crapped on every time they were handled. The rewards were worth it because they did calm down and were amongst my favorites. This pair never were biters and eventually the vertical puffed up throat displays were seldom seen (kind of unfortunate). I still regret selling them but I had to move and was forced to get rid of alot of awesome animals. They bred all year round! You need to keep these guys warm and clean. They seemed to metabolize food very quickly and defecate alot. Another note, make sure the humidity is way up around shedding time. I had to deal with several poor sheds. Don.

Thanks for responding! I partially covered his screen top with glass to help keep in the humidity - he gets ventilation from the side slots and the rest of the top. I also put a small water bowl in the corner on top of his undertank heating pad to generate some humidity - so I think he will be okay. What size tank did you have yours in when they got full grown, and how long did that take? Mine is approximately 12 to 18 inches long and 1.5 to 2X the size of a pencil at his widest point. I wonder why these guys aren't a more popular pet snake!

I wonder why these guys aren't a more popular pet snake!

Maybe Don's comments can solve the mystery:

- "The wild caught was a monster. He bit as often as he possibly could and always puffed up the throat"
- "He got around 6' long.....and still to this day was the meanest snake I've ever owned."
- "The albino pair were incredibly hyper as hatchlings, I had to endure a full year of being crapped on every time they were handled."

Doesn't make me want to rush out and get a pair.

Hope yours is a little more tractable!

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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

I understand his were a handful - but I guess I was basing my question on the personality of mine (so far). Plus, he did say his albino snakes calmed down and were very nice. Six feet isn't that big for a snake, is it? I expect my albino corn, which I bought at 2.5 feet, will be that big. And he's a sweetheart too!

Here's an ancient pic of that wild caught one when I first got him. This has got to be back around 1985. Damn I'm getting old. I bought this guy has an "asian" rat snake in some pet store. Those were the days when pet shops were the only source for animals. Despite the negatives, I find these to be extremely interesting snakes, especially when you no longer get crapped on. The biting I can deal with. Oh, don't count on your corn snake getting 6' long. It happens but it would have to be considered a rarity. Biggest one I've ever seen/owned was a wild caught who was around 5.5' long and probably very old. 4-4.5' would be more like it. Good luck with the radiated, they are really cool looking as adults. Don.

Unfortunately, your picture didn't come through - but I'd love to see it. The 6-foot length for the corn snake came from stuff I have read online, although I admit I bought that snake knowing NOTHING about any of them, but have learned a lot. I've had him about 4 months and he has probably increased 30% in length - he is longer than a 40-gallon breeder tank (not sure how long that is) already - but I don't know how old he is - but he definitely wasn't a baby when I got him. I don't know if the vet can estimate age -but I did have him probed and he is a boy. I agree on the pooping issue with the copperhead/radiated (what in the heck should I call him, anyway?) - he peepees a little and has pooped one time on me. But I think he is used to me because he only did it the first 2 days and hasn't that past couple of days. I ordered a bunch of books online today about corn snakes and rat snakes (I made sure the rat snake books were older, since they were re-classified about 4 years ago) - and a general snake book since I know little to nothing about them. I attached a length picture of my corn from the last time he shed (he actually used me - my earrings - to start shedding).

Are there any German/UK breeders of C. Radiata out there. Are they availiable at hamm?