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I am fairly new to torts in general, and have an interesting problem. I recently acquired an adult female to pair with a male I have been having for about 8 months or so (Got him at local Petco as an adult). Well starting this weekend he has been exhibiting classic Russian courting behaviour. Head bobbing, nipping at legs of the female, ramming her, and trying to mount. At one point he actually mounted her briefly and started vocalizing!! Needless to say my kids and I were in hysterics and utterly fascinated at this behaviour. My question is, is this OK to let occur, or should I separate until after a brumation period and spring warmup? I am planning on cooling the pair this winter within a month or so with plans to breed this spring. Any help on this situation would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks
KevinM

My adult russians were kept together nearly year round. In fact the only times I saw successful mating was during the autumn. Of course I didn't watch them all the time.

I hibernated mine from around December to February. They generally laid eggs around April-May. I don't know if the eggs were fertilized from autumn or spring matings.

I did sometimes seperate the torts to give the females a rest. Males can sometimes inflict injuries, and they seem to harass females almost constantly.

Thanks for the info Bradtort!! I am planning on hibernating my torts like my colubrids, around 50-60 degrees from December to February. Do the temps sound right? Also, when you hibernate, do you place them in boxes filled with mulch or other type of substrate?

Thanks Again

>>Thanks for the info Bradtort!! I am planning on hibernating my torts like my colubrids, around 50-60 degrees from December to February. Do the temps sound right? Also, when you hibernate, do you place them in boxes filled with mulch or other type of substrate?
>>
>>Thanks Again

Temps in the 40s and 50s might be better. Mine voluntarily went into hibernation when temps dropped below 60, and came out voluntarily when temps rose above 60. But from what I read, their metabolism will still run a little high at 60 degrees, and they will do better at lower temps.

I placed them in a box with newspaper. I also weighed them every few weeks. If the tort lost more than say 10-15 grams, I would soak it in shallow, cool water for 15 minutes. Soaking them does wake them up, but it doesn't seem to interfere with the hibernation. Soaking helps avoid dehydration.

Read up on hibernation at www.tortoisetrust.org

They need to be hibernated at about 40 degrees F.

I live in Southeast Louisiana, so the odds of it staying consistently around 40 degrees is slim during winter. I can keep my hibernation room between 50-60 using an A/C unit with odd dips below these temps. I actually keep a heater set on a thermostat around 45-50 in the event we do get a light to moderate freeze. Would viable eggs still be produced with these temps? It may be time to invest in that cheap wine cooler unit LOL!!

Thanks so much for the great info. I am really hoping to breed these guys and get some eggs in the spring. I have become completely enthralled with these guys!!!

>> Would viable eggs still be produced with these temps? It may be time to invest in that cheap wine cooler unit LOL!!

Last winter was warm and my basement (where I hibernated my russians), only got into the mid 50s. As I stated earlier, my russians who were living in plastic tubs for the winter, voluntarily went into hibernation when it got below 60, and stayed down for close to 90 days until it got over 60.

Then they laid eggs, many of which hatched. Fertility was about the same as in years where the hibernation temps were in the 40s and 50s.

I'm not saying it's better to hibernate at higher temps. I'm just saying it worked for me. A cooler and more consistent temp might have produced more viable eggs. But the torts were healthy and lost little weight with the methods I used.

Thanks. I would hate to jeopardize their health if I didnt get them that cool and tried to breed them. I appreciate all the advice!!!

People have successfully bred russians without hibernation. If they are healthy, in good condition, and given the proper care, they don't really need the cool down to produce fertile eggs. Many people believe that hibernation is important, however, for the general well-being of a tortoise. I have also heard some very long term results that state the opposite.

If you hibernate this winter, do it responsibly. Try to keep the temps right around 40f, because too low or two high will cause the torts to dig (they dig up or down to find the right temperature in the wild), which will cause them to lose some of their precious reserves.

I very highly recomend that you don't hibernate this winter though. Did you get the new tort checked for parasites? If not, there's a very high possibility that the new tort does have some sort of internal parasite, and the one you had previously would then as well (because you put them together). Always quarantine your torts. Take both fecals to the vet and also take the torts for a check up. They should only go down for the winter if they have a clean bill of health, and most recomend only hibernating if they have been completely healthy for at least one year.

Also, they won't lay eggs unless you give them the right conditions. They'll need soil a little deeper than their shells are long, and they will most likely bury them underneath their heat lamp (where temps are most likely to be correct). My big female russian dug 'test nests' for a month and a half before I figured out what the problems were. #1: She didn't have enough dirt. I only had her on about 6" of dirt, and her shell is about 9-10", so she needed at least 4" more (I gave her about a foot of dirt). Also, experiment with different basking spot temperatures. I gave my female choices between about 90f surface temp, 120f, and 175f surface temps, and she chose 175 (note: These measurements are the surface of the soil, not the air temperatures...all were measured with a PE temp gun).

If your male's mating 'takes', then you could have a tortoise that is ready to dig in a months time. However, how large is your female? Most of the Wild Caught ones I see sold are about 5" shell length, which is often too small to be sexually mature anyways.

Just some opinions.

Thanks for the info Ryan. No I have not had this pair vet checked. Something I really should do, or at least treat for intestinal parasites.

So, they may not need to hibernate to breed? Sort of like some colubrids. Very interesting.

The female is not set up to lay eggs. She is a good 6.5 to 7 inches long, and quite a bit bigger than my male who is about 6 inches tops.

Once again, thanks for the info.

at that size if their breeding activities 'take', then you could have eggs soon, though there is also a huge chance that, since they may not be in perfect health yet, the female may not be developing eggs.

There's a lot to it, I would look at www.russiantortoise.org and also try to form your own opinions based on what you read/hear.

They don't need to hibernate to breed and reproduce, though some still claim that not hibernating can cause damage to the tortoise's renal system (kidneys, etc.). I kind of feel however that those matters are caused primarily be dehydration and other poor care, but when dealing with animals with such a long life span it is hard for anyone to prove much of anything on the subject.

Definately take them to the vet. I made a similar mistake with some of my torts by not quarantining them long enough, and I ended up with two females with parasites instead of just one.

I put mine in the refrigerator. For the past 5 or 6 years they've hibernated from the end of November 'til March in the vegetable crisper drawer of the refrigerator. It stays a constant 40 degrees & I know that nothing will disturb them.

I thought about putting my snakes in the extra frig I have, but always chickened out. I am going to put a thermometer in the crisper tonight and see what temps it holds!!! Great Idea!!

Here's a good article on refrigerator hibernation:
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/Refrigerator.htm

Nina
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