Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just purchased a snake and I was wondering wether anyone has ever bred a japanese rat snake to an amelanistic corn snake.

He is a very gorgeous snake, has the facial marking of a japanese rat snake but the colourations and markings of a carpet python. Very unusual, but not as big as japanese rat snake babies. Only about 20 cm max, rather than 40cm.

Can anyone advise as to wether or not this have ever been done before as I have never heard of it.

I will hopefully be able to put up some pictures at the weekend if anyone is interested

Thanks
Katie

2.0.0 Cornsnakes (Ghost and Normal)
0.0.1 Jameles Ratsnake (One in question above)
1.1.0 Hogg Island Boas
0.0.1 Western Hognose
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Katie
xxx
Thanks in advance

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sig file edited 1/29/05 [phw]

A fellow in the midwest was selling them last year. But I don't remember them looking like carpet pythons.

Regards
John

>>A fellow in the midwest was selling them last year. But I don't remember them looking like carpet pythons.
>>
>>
>>Regards
>>John

Heheheh! I was wondering when someone was going to get around to trying to cross Eurasian Elaphe with N. A. Pantherophis. After all is said and done concerning the taxonomy, just how close or distant are these snakes. Are they totally unrelated or pretty near on the family tree? I think we'd definitely have to consider the offspring hybrids, since they are separated by an ocean and thousands of years of evolution.

Good luck trying to get them to pair up, but let us know if you do....

TC

Wisent, bison; zebra, horse; lion, tiger.

Sure why not. Kissing cousins (in a manner of speaking). I've even heard that the dragon-fly is a hybrid of a dragon and a fly!!!

Well maybe I made that one up.

Now if I had the photoshop skills I'd paint the color pattern of the mandarin ratsnake on a reticulated python photo and drag this post back onto the Asian and European Forum topic range. Alas I have not those skills.

John

I was wondering when someone was going to get around to trying to cross Eurasian Elaphe with N. A. Pantherophis.

One of our European posters talked about this last winter. He mentioned one or two successful hybridizations between ratsnakes from the US and Europe. I remember at the time being surprised more people didn't pick up on it, but I don't think the post was directly related to the topic at hand.

Unfortunately, I do not remember the species in question. If I were to guess, I'd say a Russian Ratsnake crossed with a Cornsnake.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

>>One of our European posters talked about this last winter. He mentioned one or two successful hybridizations between ratsnakes from the US and Europe. I remember at the time being surprised more people didn't pick up on it, but I don't think the post was directly related to the topic at hand.
>>
>>Unfortunately, I do not remember the species in question. If I were to guess, I'd say a Russian Ratsnake crossed with a Cornsnake.
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I vaguely remember something like that, not sure, but probably wasn't that surprised myself. If I was going to try I'd probably use E. schrencki or climacophora because these seem to be most like the Pantherophis and could be more closely related than other Eurasian species. I don't keep either one anymore, however. I still keep dione and bimaculata which I've been breeding since the 90's. I've sometimes wondered if it would take and have briefly pondered about putting them together with one of my corns overwinter. Part of me doesn't like the idea of having these abnormalities around, but the other part is curious, very curious, about the taxonomy, and would like to know, haha! It probably will happen someday in the U. S., simply because they're there and the odds keep going up. That's providing it'll work, of course.

Cheers....TC

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Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

Terry,

A post from Hermanbronsgeest on the ratsnake general forum. From today no less...

"On the other hand, Pantherophis guttatus has been crossed with Elaphe climacophora, Elaphe schrencki and Rhinechis scalaris(!!!). I have never heard of a succesful breeding of any Old World / New World F1 hybrids though."

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1185148,1185586
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

About 15 years ago (or so) I saw this guy selling Elaphe schrencki * Pantherophis guttatus hybrids at a snake expo in The Netherlands. I still remember these little hybrids very well, and they actually looked quite similar to Carpet Pythons (colours and pattern, that is). Since Elaphe schrencki and E. climacophora are related very closely, I'd quess an Elaphe climacophora * Pantherophis guttatus hybrid should be looking similar to an E. schrenki * P. guttatus hybrid.

>>About 15 years ago (or so) I saw this guy selling Elaphe schrencki * Pantherophis guttatus hybrids at a snake expo in The Netherlands. I still remember these little hybrids very well, and they actually looked quite similar to Carpet Pythons (colours and pattern, that is). Since Elaphe schrencki and E. climacophora are related very closely, I'd quess an Elaphe climacophora * Pantherophis guttatus hybrid should be looking similar to an E. schrenki * P. guttatus hybrid.

The reason I found him/her so unusual is because looking at pictures of japanese rat snakes that I can find they don't seem to have the dark stripe beside the eye as my one does, an dif they do it is not as bold.

You will see when I post the pictures that the stripe is rather bold and it does have a similar colour and pattern to a carpet python.
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Katie

2.0.0 cornsnakes (Ghost and Normal)
0.0.1 Jameles Ratsnake
0.0.1 Western Hognose
1.1.0 Hogg Island Boas
1.1.0 Argentinian Tegus

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sig file edited 1/29/05 [phw]

Earlier this month at the NARBC show in Tinley Park IL, Larry Keller (Prairieland Herp) had Kunisur X Corn hybrids. I believe it was an adult 1.1 pair. They were pretty neat looking if you like that sort of thing. From what I recall, they more or less retained the cornsnake pattern but the colors were greenish, yellow, and brown/black. Maybe that's carpet python-esque? I'm not overly familiar with non-colubrids.

(He also had an adult trio of ridleyi X blue beauties. They seemed to get the worst traits of both subspecies and were large, mean, and ugly! )

Dan

I can confirm that. I was at the Indy show on Saturday (11/4), and Larry Kellar had some E. climacaphora X Corns for sale. I think they were yearlings. The looked like duller versions of the Kunasir Island rat...more brownish than greenish. I personally didnt find them too attractive. I did however like the Leopard Rats and plan to eventually add one of those to my collection.
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0.1 Amelanistic Corn
0.1 Aberrant California King
1.0 Pueblan Milk
0.1 Blair's Gray Banded King
0.1 Blonde Trans Pecos Rat
1.0 Variable King
0.1 Chihuahua Mtn. King
0.1 Kunasir Island Rat