Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was at the Indy Expo this past weekend, and picked up a nice Kunasir Island Rat from BHB. I also saw some Leopard Rats at Prairieland Herp. I really like the intricate head pattern and red eyes. I want to add one to my collection. Larry at Prairieland had some blotched (normal) phase adults...but only striped phase babies. I would like to find a blotched phase female. Do you guys have any leads as to who works with Leopard Rats, and/or where I might find one? Thanks for any tips you can post.
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0.1 Amelanistic Corn
0.1 Aberrant California King
1.0 Pueblan Milk
0.1 Blair's Gray Banded King
0.1 Blonde Trans Pecos Rat
1.0 Variable King
0.1 Chihuahua Mtn. King
0.1 Kunasir Island Rat

C'mon folks! Nobody knows anyone working with Leopard Rat snakes?
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0.1 Amelanistic Corn
0.1 Aberrant California King
1.0 Pueblan Milk
0.1 Blair's Gray Banded King
0.1 Blonde Trans Pecos Rat
1.0 Variable King
0.1 Chihuahua Mtn. King
0.1 Kunasir Island Rat

I didn't reply earlier to your post because I didn't want to come off sounding like a jerk. But since you insisted...You seem to have only a single of each of the animals in your collection. When I sell leopard rats I always sell them in pairs. If I was heavy on males (which I have not been so far...knock on wood) I would sell a single male but never a single female. Leopard rats are still too rare in collections to have a female sitting stagnant as a pet. I would imagine that if a breeder had extra females they would be sold as part of a trio. Also, single females of most species command a higher price. If you wanted a pair or a single male I bet you might have more replies.
Good luck in your search. They are great little ratsnakes. Beautiful and they usually have a nice disposition once they outgrow the hatchling nippiness.
Kayvon

I do plan to eventually breed some of my stock. As someone familiar with genetics, I am somewhat picky about breeding siblings. Usually hatchlings sold in pairs are from the same clutch. I know F2 and back crosses are acceptable (especially when attempting to prove out traits), but I prefer to not to breed siblings if at all possible. I am a believer in genetic diversity in species.

I am new to the hobby, and am making, slow, careful, forays into it. I hope to acquire females of certain species, get a year's head start growing them, then acquire males from different stock the following year. That way, in an additional few years, I'll be ready to breed. As a breeder of Leopard Rats, Im sure you can appreciate someone trying to help maintain the genetic diversity (and quality) of that species. The snakes I acquire wont languish as pets.

Some of the species I acquire I plan to use in my classroom. I plan to use the Corns for genetics lessons, I plan to use the Pueblan when I talk about mimicry, etc.

Like you said, Leopards are uncommon. That was the reason for my post, to hopefully locate folks who work with them and open dialogue for possibly acquiring some snakes. Thanks for your input, and if you wish, I would ejoy talking with you about Leopard Rats.
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0.1 Amelanistic Corn
0.1 Aberrant California King
1.0 Pueblan Milk
0.1 Blair's Gray Banded King
0.1 Blonde Trans Pecos Rat
1.0 Variable King
0.1 Chihuahua Mtn. King
0.1 Kunasir Island Rat
0.1 Baird's Rat

As you say, Leopard Snakes are uncommon in captivity. Nevertheless in future it will be more interesting as more colour morphs are on their way. I breed this species since 20 years and have some interesting morphs like anerythristic, hypoerythristic, hypomelanistic. Due to their small amount of eggs (3-4/year) it won't be as common as other species.
John Mulder

hypomelanistic trait. In general I find reduced melanin (but not amelanism) to be an enhancement in many species. Especially as the animals age. Hopefully someone will start working with them in the US someday.
Regards
John Firneno

Zamenis situla or the leopard snake isn`t so rare in captivity. I know of many breeders, but still they only produce a few eggs at most (not like a friend that had 11 babies in a single clutch) Hardy ongoing breeders are on the other hand VERY hard to find, and if you are looking for locality forms, you better look hard and long.
They are out there, but since I started with situla, I did find that it is a non profit animal, and "noone" sticks to them for generations. I have bred them in 3 populations ( 1 not perfectly due to inbreeding and I needed to breed in a nearbye locality)and I have done that for 14 generations maybe even 15. I have stopped counting. I have bred them since 1981 and will do it, to the day I die. In the beginning I fed the babies up to maturity in no time, but I didn`t have any good results from that. Now nature takes its time, and I breed them in their 4`th year. They get so much older and far more healthier that way.
The american way of producing various sorts of color morphs, isn`t my way. I had them among the babies a few times, but that isn`t my kind of breeding.

Best wishes
Søe

I applaud you for sticking with the species you love. I know what you mean about non-profit. I work with some very under-appreciated species too.

But I do like to find locale animals that correspond to my tastes. I'm interested in seeing a situla that runs to less melanin. An amelanistic would not appeal to me but I feel that hypomelanistic strains tend to remain attractive later on in life.

Because of the problem of inbreeding, in general, I try to find a locale that tends to correspond to the appearance I'm looking for. For instance, if I wanted a gray ratsnake with a lighter ground color I would be better off starting with animals from the area where "white oak" grays were prevalent. That way I don't have to line breed for the trait I'm interested in. Of course selection would still be key to maximizing the trait. But that's only reasonable. Of course this is assuming that you can start with enough unrelated stock initially. Otherwise inbreeding will get you sooner or later.

Søe, what was your favorite herp event this year? Mine was receiving a pair of vietnamese mandarins in October.

Regards
John

>>Zamenis situla or the leopard snake isn`t so rare in captivity. I know of many breeders, but still they only produce a few eggs at most (not like a friend that had 11 babies in a single clutch) Hardy ongoing breeders are on the other hand VERY hard to find, and if you are looking for locality forms, you better look hard and long.
>>They are out there, but since I started with situla, I did find that it is a non profit animal, and "noone" sticks to them for generations. I have bred them in 3 populations ( 1 not perfectly due to inbreeding and I needed to breed in a nearbye locality)and I have done that for 14 generations maybe even 15. I have stopped counting. I have bred them since 1981 and will do it, to the day I die. In the beginning I fed the babies up to maturity in no time, but I didn`t have any good results from that. Now nature takes its time, and I breed them in their 4`th year. They get so much older and far more healthier that way.
>>The american way of producing various sorts of color morphs, isn`t my way. I had them among the babies a few times, but that isn`t my kind of breeding.
>>
>>Best wishes
>>Søe

Hi John
I do believe there is a difference in breeding a special local form and seeking out odd looking animals even various forms of albinos and similar. That is why I allways use the strongest, best eating animals for further breeding and not a special color, even if they should look prettier. I quess that is why I have maneged to keep situla for so many generations. I have no intentions to help, what I use to call the "Freakshow" Allready now there are problems finding cornsnakes here without any hidden albino gens. I have tried 5 times to get pure Oketee, but always found out that they were mixed, when I bred them. That is a tendensy that will spread to many other species, and that isn`t something, that I like. Just attend a show and see how many albino forms there are there. They can be nice looking and are far easier to sell, but I just like to know that on that hillside in that county, I can find a similar animal to the ones I have. Maybe it is me, that is crasy, but that is how I like my hobby.
I think you misunderstood "Nonprofit" I have animals to pay the bills, that is just not situla. They are simply to cheap according to number of eggs and the effort spend to breed them.
The best event this year.........Hmmm a good question. I think that was the time spend to help Bert during his illness in Alabama, but if you are thinking of the animals, i think it was when I bred Eumeces fasciatus ( Yes the little skink outside in your garden )THAT was something special to me, even I do believe it could make people in USA shake their heads. Another thing that was very very special was when my chinese alligators made a choir and "sang" together for hours. At that time I had newer heard the female roar before. I wish I had a recorder for that.

Best wishes
Søe

Søe:
All three of those of course count. But helping Bert is too important to count in the samll scope I was discussing. I consider my real life at a much higher level of importance than anything related to my herp hobby. I have and would again put aside all my hobbies if something involving my family necessitates shifting resources. In fact I've recently had to empty out the room I use for herps to make room for some family members who need help. I'm trying to figure out how I can make the basement work as a permanent area for my snakes but if it doesn't work, c'est la vie. But the other two examples fit perfectly. I work with great Plains Skinks (another common Eumeces species) and they are alot of fun. Now that alligator behavior sounds really exciting. It has a kind of Jurassic Park feel to it. I wonder how long it's been since wild crocodilians last bellowed in Denmark. Well thanks for sharing and since today is the American Holiday of Thanksgiving let me wish you and your family and friends health and happiness for the holidays and in the New Year.
Best regards
John