Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all,

My name's Jenny and for the most part I'm a "snake person". However, a lady came into the pet store I work at with these two poor water dragons that she rescued but could no longer care for, and after seeing them I couldn't say no. I'll post pictures in the morning, but I wanted to get my questions out there first.

Bit of background on the dragons:
Rescued from some people who kept them in a wire cage and fed them only lettuce and carrots. They rubbed their noses raw, the male in particular all the way down to the bone and more. When they were rescued they were so dehydrated they looked like they were constantly in shed. They're missing claws and the tails are missing pieces, and from what the lady who gave them to me said, they look considerably better now than they did when she got them two months ago, and I can believe her. The people she took them from were just going to let the lizards go. The woman who's given the lizards to me has already treated them with antibiotics and has gotten them to look pretty healthy, aside from the obvious wounds. They both have good weight and are eating mealworms and crickets along with their veggies.

Now, my questions:
Any advice on anything special I should do other than what I will find on the caresheet(s) on this site? They've come complete with an excellent setup, heat lights, full spectrum lighting, basking spot, and I believe the cage itself is some sort of vision cage. I'll be cleaning them out in the morning and putting in fresh bedding. Any advice on a specific bedding I should consider?
The male dragon in particular wore his bottom jaw all the way to the bone and then some. It is still essentially an open wound and looks fairly clean but I wonder if there is anything I should do for it. They've both already been to the vet and finished treatments, and pretty much the vet told the woman they just have months to go to heal up.

Can I expect them to become handleable? They put up with being picked up with right now, can I expect them to become tamer the more I work with them or will they essentially become a look-don't-touch sort of pet?

Sorry for the long post! Any other information anyone can give me would be greatly appreciated - I never expected this sort of thing to happen!

~jenny
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1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.0.1 california kingsnake (Tetris)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
2.0 horses (Buddy and Sam)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

Hmmm, just noticed how slow traffic is here.

Anyway, here are the pictures of the dragons.

The Male (as of yet, nameless):

his mouth is open in this picture, but you get a pretty good idea of the damage done to his jaw.

another view of his face.

the jaw itself... I was having difficulties getting the camera to focus on it.

And a body shot. If it weren't for his face he'd be really gorgeous.

The Female (Also nameless):

She's not in nearly as bad of shape as the male.

She's a very tolerant lady.

Looks bad, but again, not nearly as bad as the male.

Matter of fact, she almost has her entire nose.

So there you have it. Any and all advice is appreciated. Thanks!

~jenny
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1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.0.1 california kingsnake (Tetris)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
2.0 horses (Buddy and Sam)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

I don't have near the experience of "K", only 4 years, but I would clean that mouth wound daily with betadine diluted 1 part to 50 parts water and then dry it and apply neosporin. I also think you have 2 females. The "male" isn't really exhibiting any thing that differentiates him from the other dragon. They both look to be in relatively good condition except for the snout rub (that is some of the worst I've ever seen). Their color and weight looks very good. I'm glad they found a loving home. Nightly soaks in the tub (tepid water) will help you bond with them. Ultimately they should allow you to hand feed and even free roam in a dragon-proofed room. Just don't let them get cold. Enjoy!
The picture is of my male, Avanyu.
Diane

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dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago
Valentino, Veiled Chameleon
Chyam, Nosy Be Panther Chameleon

Any ideas on where I'd find betadine? We used to have some at the petstore I work at but since we ran out I haven't been sure of where to find a replacement.

I agree, the "male" looks nothing like yours. Unless "he's" still young, he's probably a she. The lady who gave them to me seemed convinced he was a he though, perhaps the vet told her she had a pair. Either way, this one's my favorite. Quite a character.

They're gorgeous animals. It makes me so sad that someone would let them destroy their faces the way they did They're certainly getting spoiled now, though.

~jenny
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1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.0.1 california kingsnake (Tetris)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
2.0 horses (Buddy and Sam)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

Any pharmacy or discount store has it. check where they sell bandages. Povidine iodine is the generic. Diane
-----

dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago
Valentino, Veiled Chameleon
Chyam, Nosy Be Panther Chameleon

Just thought I'd let you know that after just a day of using the betadine/neosporin, there's a visible difference. I was honestly amazed when I woke up this morning after putting it on last night. I'll give it a couple more days to see if it continues to be so amazing, could be it's just the difference it makes keeping the wounds clean with betadine that helps so much. I've noticed betadine helps a lot with healing neck scabs on aquatic turtles, it's really awesome to see it working so nicely on the dragons.
Thanks so much for the advice!

~jenny
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1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.0.1 california kingsnake (Tetris)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
2.0 horses (Buddy and Sam)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

Glad to hear that there may be some improvement. With any luck the rawness will eventually heal. It sounds like they're still going to rub, even in a smooth enclosure, but the damage should be less than in a wire cage. Sometimes a nice plant outside of their cage attracts their attention and they try to get to it. Moving the plant to another location may help. Same for mirrors and other things that may attract their attention. diane
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dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago
Valentino, Veiled Chameleon
Chyam, Nosy Be Panther Chameleon

Background information...I have kept/bred/raised/hatched water dragons for well over 12 years. I'm not a vet...what I have learned is from my own experience and from what I have read and learned from others. I keep a wide variety of other reptiles too.

You said..."The woman who's given the lizards to me has already treated them with antibiotics and has gotten them to look pretty healthy, aside from the obvious wounds"...they look quite good except for the mouths/jaws/lips. Its good to know that she had them treated with antibiotics...but that might not have been enough. Even though the vet said it should be okay, I would keep an eye on the sore areas and if there is any indication that the wounds are not healing I would take them to the vet again. Most of the time with mouth problems like this, the areas that are sore need to be cleaned out properly by a vet along with them being given antibiotics or the sores will return or not heal. Their pus is like cottage cheese in texture usually and the bacteria involved are stubborn.

You asked..."Any advice on anything special I should do other than what I will find on the caresheet(s) on this site?"...IMHO you need to gutload the insects with a nutritious diet and dust them before offering them to the dragons. I would also advise that you feed them insects one day and alternate days feed them a mixture of veggies, greens and fruits.

I gutload my crickets with a wide variety of greens and veggies. I dust them with a phosphorous-free calcium powder at most feedings since insects have a poor cal./phos. ratio. I also dust them with a vitamin powder twice a month. I make sure the one I use has a beta carotene source of vitamin A because it won't build up in the system like preformed vitamin A will. If they don't get any direct sunlight, then I also dust twice a month with a vitamin D3/calcium powder. Vitamin D3 from supplements can also build up in the system (but not from exposure to UVB/sunlight) so don't overdo it.

I offer the dragons a mixture of greens (dandelion greens, endive, collards, kale, ROMAINE lettuce, mustard greens, etc.), veggies (sweet red peppers, squash, sweet potato, carrot, zucchini, etc.)and some fruit (apple, pear, melon, berries, etc.) (as I said above).

You said..."They've come complete with an excellent setup, heat lights, full spectrum lighting, basking spot, and I believe the cage itself is some sort of vision cage. I'll be cleaning them out in the morning and putting in fresh bedding. Any advice on a specific bedding I should consider?"...sounds good. (I have no idea what a "vision cage" is though.) I use cypress mulch for bedding. My cages are about 2/3rds land and 1/3 water. I will assume that you know the appropriate temperatures? Even if you aren't keeping them together, the female can lay eggs in the spring and early summer and she should have a place to lay them in the cage.

You asked..."Can I expect them to become handleable? They put up with being picked up with right now, can I expect them to become tamer the more I work with them or will they essentially become a look-don't-touch sort of pet?"...it depends on the individual...but most of them will tame down quite a bit. Mine will ride around on my shoulder (or head, if I were to allow it).

Even though you never expected to end up with this situation, I think you might find them to be interesting pets! If you have any other questions, just ask. I'll do my best to answer.

I'm pretty sure the vet cleaned them out along with the antibiotics treatment. The sores are still pink and pretty clean for animals that eat bugs, so I'm hoping as long as I keep the cage clean they won't need to see a vet again.

I am a humongous fan of gutloading crickets - the crickets slated for dinner tomorrow are currently eating what is probably the best meal of their little lives. I also gave the dragons a pinkie apiece today. The male ate his entirely, but my girl just ate half of hers, eugh. I'm just dusting the crickets, and since the weather is so great they're going to be getting direct sun time on a pretty regular basis.

They are chowing down on their salad, so I'm guessing I made it tasty. The general recipe seems to be the same for most reptiles, which the specifics depending on species. These guys are nice and simple it seems, iguanas and tortoises have salad requirements worse than an atkins diet!

A vision cage is essentially molded plastic with a grate in the back (on mine) for heat and spectrum lights, and sliding glass doors on front. Awesome for keeping humidity constant
I decided on paper towels for now so I get an idea of what their droppings are like and to make sure that there are droppings, and it's easy to clean on a close to daily basis. My bedroom might be a mess most of the time but heaven forbid my animals live in the same state, lol.

What is your idea of the correct temperatures? Right now I've got it 90 under the basking light, 80 on the cool end and at night it drops to 80, 85 under the heat light (red bulb) and 70, 75 in the rest of the tank. Sound about right? I've gotten a lot of mixed information on this, for some reason!

Already they're actually pretty tame. I'm pleasantly surprised; what I'd heard from the woman who'd had them before made me think they didn't put up with handling too well, but at the moment both are currently chilling on my knees. Maybe they know I'm a sucker.

It's only been a couple days and I already think they're pretty awesome. Thank you for the information, it's extremely helpful!

~jenny
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1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.0.1 california kingsnake (Tetris)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
2.0 horses (Buddy and Sam)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

you said..."what I'd heard from the woman who'd had them before made me think they didn't put up with handling too well"...maybe she didn't know how to handle them properly?

Sounds like you have everything right...including the temperatures!

Thanks!

And yeah, I'm getting the feeling that maybe she just didn't know how to handle them. When my family first picked them up they had problems holding them until both parties worked things out, heh.

I am having problems with them kamikazi'ing into the glass front of their cage though. I blocked off the bottom part of the glass since they were trying to rub through it, and so they've taken to leaping off branches into the front of their cage. Anything I can do to curb this? I'm pilfering plants out of my big display tank for my snakes and washing them and putting them in the cage to see if maybe it's a lack of adequate hiding spots, but I dono what else to do. It's rather alarming.

Thanks again!
~jenny
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1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.0.1 california kingsnake (Tetris)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
2.0 horses (Buddy and Sam)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

Sorry to hear what you are going through, but you are awesome to take the time to do so. I don't have this type of WD, I have the australian wd. However, I have heard people using the reptariaum/cloth enclosures for these guys. I am sure its much less of a blow to their face upon impact. Maybe you could keep them in one of those until they heal and get better adjusted to you and the new environment. I have a reptarium that I use for my aus wds when I am cleaning their enclosure and they seem to calm down and run about the sides like they are discovering a new world, since its black in color, I think it makes them feel more secure. I hope this helps. Good luck.. just focus on how great they will feel/look be when they are better.

Thank you, and I don't think I've ever seen cloth enclosures big enough around here. I'll have to look harder - if I continue to do things like this (I have the feeling I will), that'd be a great thing to have.
After some tinkering with my husbandry, they've calmed down considerably and only make halfhearted attempts to get out once in a while. It's very relieving
Thanks again, and care to share some pics of your aussies? I've pretty much just seen the Chinese water dragons, it'd make for a fun comparison!

~jenny
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1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.0.1 california kingsnake (Tetris)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
2.0 horses (Buddy and Sam)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

You can look/purchase the reptariums at www.4littlepets.com. They make them pretty large, I have one that's 260 gallons. They fold down for storage. I thought I had pics of my wds on kingsnake, but when I tried to load them, they were too large. I will post a few tomorrow. They really are quite cool and not inclined to bite.. so far.

I didn't want to post pics here in your post, so look at the new posting titled My Aussie WDS.

first of all, very niceo fyou to take them in. i would expect they would become more handelable, for substrate dirt, reptibark, gravel w/ moss on top, or even paper towel would work. paper towel is the simpelest and the easiest way to monitor how much they eat. i hate it when people buy stuff they can't take care of, why do they buy it in the first place? i have no patience for that, make sure you dust their food cause i'm guessing the first owner didn't. good l uck and keep me posted! do they have names yet?

They've recently been named Yoni and Linga

Nope, their food wasn't dusted prior to me acquiring them but since they're not eating their crickets (most crickets appear to have kamikazi'd into the water bowl) I'm half heartedly dusting the mealworms and pinkies that I know they're eating.

Believe me, I have no patience either for people who get critters without finding out what they need first. Sadly, in the case of the dragons, the people who'd first owned them simply didn't care.

~jenny
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1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.0.1 california kingsnake (Tetris)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
2.0 horses (Buddy and Sam)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire

Yoni, sweet name! i hate when people do that, i did a report, 85% of all herps die within the first year and 95% of all iggy's die w/in the first year. pretty sad what people can do. i just don't understand why they would want one in the first place.

Agh my friend was part of that statistic >.<

her iggy ate a woodchip and died...

I'm getting a CWD and I cant wait. I love them, they're so adorable! I've been reading up on them for the last two months so I think I've got it all down(at least the things I can get off the internet that are reliabe...)

anyway... Its good when people can take in animals like that. We've done that so much in the past, our whole house was full to the ceilings with rejected animals and it cost over $300 a month to feed them all!!!

Anyway, we gave most of them to loving owners and now only own 7 dogs, 3 cats, 1 bird, fish, a turtle, hermit crabs, and a land crab. Soon, a CWD! ^.^