Reptile & Amphibian Forums

this is my aligator lizard, is a juvenil, i got it in october 1st from my budy "el negro".

I Pick this one because its long tail, el negro has more juveniles about same size, some with long tail (as mine) an some with shorter tails.

El negro told me that lizards with longer tails, were males, and lizards with shorter tails were females.

I dont trust in negro, does this is a sexual dimorphism between al lizards??

i hope somebody help me....

regards.

saboteur.

Tail length has nothing to do with sex. They will shed their tail if it is grabbed - as a defensive mechanism. Both males and females alike will do this.

Males have much wider / more triangular heads, and often when picked up, will display their hemi-penises. They also are sometimes larger (snout to vent) than females, at least with California species. I don't know about Mexican species.
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3.3 L. getula californiae
1.0 L. getula nigrita
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
2.1.2 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

btw - thanks for the pic.
It's a gorgeous lizard, looks like it has never lost its tail.

Here are 3 of my babies:

and

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3.3 L. getula californiae
1.0 L. getula nigrita
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
2.1.2 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

It looks like a Madrean alligator lizard, Elgaria kingii; they range down into Mexico. I have a pair from Arizona. Funkyres is right, you can't go by tail length and have to look at head shape in adults with males having broader and more triangular heads. Sometimes alligator lizards will evert their hemipenes when they are struggling after being picked up. Sometimes you'll get lucky and be able to sex juvenile males this way.

-Alice

your are right Alice, its an elgaria kingii, looks so diferent to a multicarinata...

so i will wait to see its gender...

and Negro...you dissapoint me again...

thanks.

I have never heard of sexual dimorphism based on tail length but now I am wondering if you're friend might be correct.
Earlier this year in May I went to Arizona to collect L. pyromelana and my friend asked me if I would bring him back a couple E. kingii if I found any. I found some kingii for him and I brought them back. My friend lives several hours away from me and could not pick them up right away. I had a naturalistic terrarium set up for a local skink I use as a scenting lizard so I just put the kingii in there. I had them for about 2 months then he came a got them. Well several weeks later four baby kingii suddenly appeared in the cage!
I removed the skink and I am keeping these babies and they are doing great! One thing I have noticed is that two of them are larger and also have proportionally longer tail. They all have original unbroken tails. I am not about to handle them to get accurate measurements because they are so small and delicate but the two smaller ones have tails about 1.5 times their body length and the two larger ones have tails about 2.25 times body length.
Kingii don't seem to be commonly bred in captivity and so many wild specimens have broken tails I think this may be a trait that has gone overlooked.
Couple other things I will mention. Raising these all in one cage from hatching I have never seen any aggresion. They all love to perch on some leafy branches I have in there too. The two larger ones dominate the top braches and often hang out right next to each other while the smaller ones usually stay lower in the braches or else are on the ground. Feeding time I dump in about 40 small crickets and they all go crazy and they are all getting plenty of food as I watch them eat. I also put food in the cage for the crickets to keep any the lizards miss from trying to feed on the lizards. I keep them at room temperature but occasionally I put the whole screen topped cage outside half in shade half in the sun. There is a thermometer in the cage too and I check it every few minutes when it's in the sun so they don't overheat and I move the cage so it stays partially in the shade at all times.

i think it could be a sexual dimorfism, at least for madrean al, i have not seen before aligator lizards with its complete tail, except for the clouth (WC)that my friend negro had, and the diference was so big between tail lenghts...(im not saying its a fact)

mi lizard bite me for first time past week..ja the beautiful thing took my finger and start to twist as an aligator while feeding!!!! of course did not hurt me, but i was in shock looking this behavior...

i love it...

its becoming pretty nervous, i will not handle any more, i dont want it will lose its tail by my fault...

any way some times still take crickets from my hand..

how much do you handle your aligators??

I don't really handle them. I just like to watch them. If I need to clean the cage I let them crawl onto a large spoon and put them in a jar. They are still really small.
I like the piture of your lizard. Very pretty animal.

Of my four southern holdbacks - the two that are definitely male are larger than the two that are probably female.

Over thanksgiving - I checked on the four I giftet to my little brothers. His are smaller than mine, even though they are from the same clutch. I suspect he isn't being as faithful with the reptivite and reptical as he should be, and I talked to my parents about that - to make sure he was dusting every 2 or 3 feedings.

Anyway - the largest one had pink dots on the vent where hemipenises would be - I'll have to check again in spring when they are bigger, but I suspect he has 1.3 (the other 3 didn't have any signs, but they may just be too small).

There definitely is a size difference between males and females of the same age - wether there is a relative tail length different with unbroken tails, that I am not convinced of.
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3.3 L. getula californiae
1.0 L. getula nigrita
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
2.1.2 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

I'm not totally convinced but it does seem like it could be true. They are different species too so it could be true for arizonas and not southerns, who knows? I will probably not even sex these. I just want to watch their behavior for now and see how they interact with each other. They are alot more visible than my snakes but a little bit more work to take care of.

If you have more than one male, at some point they will fight if in the same enclosure, which can result in missing digits, feet, and even death.

I'm having to watch mine closely - so far, no fighting has taken place - but mine are growing so incredibly fast - I know I probably will need to separate soon.

-=-

I don't handle mine terribly often either.
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3.3 L. getula californiae
1.0 L. getula nigrita
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
2.1.2 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

I plan to watch for fighting and I know mature males normally do. Did you know that male mice normally fight too? If they are raised together in the same cage from birth they will not though. I have a friend who breeds his own mice and always runs his cages with 2 males and 4 to 6 females per cage. I am going to see what happens with these lizards and if there is any fighting I will separate them.