Reptile & Amphibian Forums

19 babies armata hatched this week end from 2 clutches, first 9 babies are from my very colourful Laos pair, the 10 other are from ordinary Malayan Sumatran morphs, these are still nice green and brown babies but nowhere near the rich and variable colors of my Laos armatas. Both morphs nested the same way at about 84f in sphagnum moss 8in deep.
Incubated at 82-86f hatched in 70-72 days strong and vigorous.

Both females copulated within a few days of nesting and produced 2 other clutches before the first one hatched, this clearly indicating that northern or southern armata morphs can equally multi clutches when properly supported.

Also I have received this Friday several specimens of nataliae, clearly 2 distinct color morphs from populations 150km apart.
Some females appear gravid.

I will not post any photos, however I will write a detailed article and post it ether on my up coming site or summit it to Reptiles magazine.

Those who contacted me about armatas, well you know what to do! As I kept no emails whatsoever.

Rgds
Happy holidays

Ps. Coronata eggs about to hatch, and my first capra like hatchlings are gravid with there first clutch, this will be my very first true CBB from CH parents.

I understand why you wouldn't post pictures of the nataliae but I would like to see pics of the baby armata if possible. Or even the 2 color variations of the mother armata.

Glad to see you back. Even happier that you may publish an article in Reptiles magazine.
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BONNIE

jobi,
Well done to you. That'll be a reptiles issue I can't wait for. I too will look foreword to pics of your new critters (in the issue?). Congrats on the armata eggs, wonderful accomplishment.

Regards, Evan

I'm so happy for you! Also glad to see you posting again, you have been missed!

I do understand you not posting pics. I just found that one of my photos, well, not even mine but one that was given to me to be used on my site, was being used in a classified ad. It was supposidly given to the seller by his wholesaler and he said he didn't know it was copyrighted. I swear the photo of the gono that he was using as another MHD species was one of your gono photos but since you took all of yours down I couldn't verify it.

I get so tired of having to put that copyright across all of my photos. It is too darned time consuming! This guy then had the brass to chew me out because I cost him a weeks worth of sales! He doesn't realize that he and all of the other jerks who are selling their CH babies that they learned to hatch because of my article and our hard work for $15-25 each are costing me sales and putting me in a bind too. I can't get rid of my babies and it is costing me too much to feed them. I want to learn to incubate but what is the use?

I have a capra-like that is gravid but what am I to do with the babies once they hatch?

Then there are kids biting the pet shops lies hook line and sinker believing that thier MHDs are CBs so they won't even look at my animals. I don't know why I am doing this any more!

Jobi, can you remind me? I love my animals, and I love the exchange of information with all of you here but what am I to do with the hatchlings? I can't afford to keep them all!

I am really happy for you and I am excited to have 3 gravid armata but I am worried about the idiots that are out there marketing these animals. The fact is that they are still considered disposible pets and are no more to the reptile industry than guppies are to the fish industry.

Tell me I am wrong and give me a little piece of hope here someone. I get into this funk every now and then because of the jerks out there. I need someone to give me a moral boost here! Please!?!

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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

Marcia, I have the solution to all of your problems.

Sell to the Pet stores!!!

Then they won't have to lie about theirs being captive bred, you can start selling by the tons. And the world becomes a better place. I hate to crush your dreams, but you are never going to change the outlook of these animals as long as pet stores keep selling WC dragons.

Letme break down the economy for you. Manufacturers make the product. The sell it to the stores. The stores use gimmicks and ads and stuff to bring in the customers. If you can bring in the customers, you don't need the store. But obviously that isn't the case. Your only option is to sell to stores. That is just the way it works.

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Ryan

Marcia,
I know exactly what you mean. I get into the same moods every once in a while. For different reasons, but still. There is no excuse for you feeling the way you do. If these lizards have any successful following in this industry, it's because of you. If there are any informed people out there working at pet stores where these animals are sold, it is because of you. If these lizards continue to be bred, and their following continues to grow, however slowly, it is because of you. If there has been any increase in the success people now have with these lizards, it is because of you. Don't lower yourself. Don't feel like no one respects you, or values your opinion. You have been doing this longer than most, and for those who have been doing it longer than you, you have been, almost certainly, more successful.

As I have said, your "Reptiles" article was the reason I got into this. I don't pretend to be an authority on these lizards, or regard myself as some expert. I've kept these lizards successfully for days under a year. Yet, all the interest I have for these animals, the foundation of my knowledge for them, came from you.

We've never even met, and I doubt we ever will, but what certain people have done for bearded dragons and leopard geckos you have started to do for these lizards. There will be a day, with the ease with which they breed and their large clutch sizes, when these lizards are available in mass numbers. Look at now, there are hundreds (maybe even thousands), being born and sold into pet stores and at shows every year, all of whom are captive bred individuals. You started this. You are the person we all regard as the expert. Haven't you noticed that whenever someone has an emergency question, they ask for you? Everyone I know who owns a horned lizard, either has heard of "FroggieB" or has been to your webpage.

I attended a party last night at my work, (a pet store), one of our regular customers, who attended, rescued a badly wounded MHD from our local chain pet store about six months ago. They brought the lizard with them to the party, we got to talking, about how she rehabilitated it, and about how it laid 16 eggs, and how it had a broken leg when they bought it. This lizard was in pretty bad shape when they got it, so they had an even tougher job than most who buy wc MHDs. She almost quoted your web site to me. Everything she learned about their care, and breeding, their conservation status, the parasite issue, even what it meant to say that a lizard was "wc" came from your web site.

There you have it. Cheer up, you expert you

Regards, Evan

Well, don't coun't on me following up on Mountain Horned Dragons or even breeding for a matter of fact. I've said it before and I will say it again, MHDs are no more than pets to me. Although financialy, I do consider them a hobby since they I spend a lot of money on them.

Don't be suprised if I never hatch a dragon, because right now I don't really plan to.
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Ryan

Ryan,
It's good though, that you like them and are interested in their conservation. They're not just "disposable pets" to you. I think that's what Marcia meant. If you never hatch a MHD, we'll all just know that you're lazy

Evan

Lazy? I didn't know it was such tedious work... Not compared to what I do though (as a jb and on a daily basis)
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Ryan

Ryan,
What do you mean? it's horrifically demanding to place eggs in a container, which has to be moist, set the temps just right, and wait. It is very strenuous to do nothing for months.

Evan

Thanks for letting me know. I'll make sure to never try my hand at something so mentally and physically challenging (I don't think I have the endurance).
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Ryan

Only those of strong composition should even attempt. You've made a wise choice my friend.

Evan

Your my hero!
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Ryan

Goody!

Evan

Last week I came back from an 8 day trip to the intensive care unit, only to find 80% of my animals dead from frost and/or starvation, the above post is about the only good news I have.

Working with reptiles is a personal investment of time and emotion, the rest is insignificant.
When learning stops, when theirs no more joy and amazement I will stop and turn to an other type of exodus. Perhaps gardening or photography?

Kind regards

Jobi,
I'm sorry to hear of your losses. But are you OK? The ICU is serious. I hope you are able to recover the remaining lizards, you sure lost a lot. Again, I'm so sorry.

Regards, Evan

Jobi, I know you are right and my dragons are my garden. When my children were small I had a huge vegetable & herb garden and I loved to work in it. My son learned at a very young age to mix herb and season his foods, also to mix greens to make fresh salads. I loved working in the soil. I now find that same comfort and peace working with my dragons and with it I am learning and meeting others who share my interest. Thanks for bringing me back to what I am about!

I am really sorry to hear about your loss. You must have been devastated to find your babies gone. Did any of your eggs survive other than the armata that just hatched? I know it has been very cold here. If we lost our heat it would be a nightmare!
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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

I can not imagine being that ill only to come home and find so many animals have died. Loosing just one can put me in a funk for days. I'm glad your better. Hospitals are not a fun place to be.
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BONNIE

These and the above mentioned are the only eggs still alive, they are from Laos armata.
I don’t know if they will make it?

Also if you remember not long ago I was struggling with a poisoning problem, many of my babies died and kept dieing from organ failure even after correction was made.

Well turns out the chicken mash develop a deadly fungus when humid, the crickets don’t feed on this, but the mealworms do and they become lethal to our dragons.

rgds

I had heard about the fungus with the mealworms back when I was keeping leo geckos. A gal on one of the forums lost her entire group and had a necropsy done finding this to be the cause. This really raised the awareness for that group. I have made sure to keep my bedding dry since that time.

So, you getting around better?
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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

Well actually, I am walking like a puppet on a string, I need to exaggerate my movements to get any control over my leg, the kids thinks it funny. I am a little embarrassed to walk in public. Other then this the knee seems better, but I will need more surgery.

No rush I kind of overdosed on hospitals lately.

About the mealworm poisoning, why haven’t you told me?
It took me a while to find the problem, I tot it was the carrots or even my water.

Rgds