Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just curious what everyone else is getting as far as growth rates for russians. I assumed they were supposed to grow slowly, but all of mine are growing quickly. Two of them are growing a solid 1/4" per month, and the new baby is following suite.

Is this normal for russians? The baby that I bought in november of last year has gone from 1.5" to 4.5", my female that I rescued in june this last summer was about 5.5" shell length, and it appears as though she had been that size for a while. Now she's about 6.75", within the next two months I expect her to be 7". My big female has been holding strong at 8.25" since I got her, and I don't expect her to grow (she has been in the U.S. at least 8 years, and I haven't seen a russian larger than her). My new little baby that I hatched out (daughter of my giant russian, and a very small male that she bred with before I got her) started out a month ago at approximately the size of a quarter, and he's already grown noticeably.

I feed everyone as much as they care to eat, and they take advantage of that. Everyone has access to various basking areas, some in excess of 150 degrees f surface temperature (and yes, they use it), and they are kept in closed enclosures to help keep heat and some humidity in. They don't exhibit pyramiding. They are all doing great.

I've only been at this about a year, and wanted to know if this is normal or not. I was also curious about the growth rates of other peoples' russians here.

I said 'surface temperatures as high as 150 degrees f'. Keep in mind these are the temperatures of the surface of the basking spot. Just didn't want anyone to think I was cooking them. It's winter right now, and the temps are a bit lower. The highest surface temperatures I could find as of right this moment in all the enclosures were as follows:

Baby russian: 100f (I tend to keep his a little lower since his body mass is so much smaller).

4.5" russian: 125f

two large females: 130f In the summer I once got temperatures of 183f off of the dirt under their basking light. This was 4 hours before the big female laid her eggs. She built her nest directly under the basking light.

I had a WC female that went from 4" to 7" in about 5-6 years.

I had a CB (one of mine) male that went from 1.5" to 4" by two years of age. He was about 5.25" at 4 years.

I feed mine about every other day. I give them what they can eat in maybe 20 minutes or so.

Interesting. So my question now is, why limit food intake?

When my torts are outdoors they are also grazing on grass and a few weeds that grow in their pen. These are tough, low-calorie foods, so I don't worry about that too much. I give them more nutrient-dense foods every other day.

When indoors my torts are less active and don't need as much food. They would eat more if offered.

Low activity and unlimited food intake would lead to obesity. At least that's what would happen to just about any other animal I could think of.

I've just been offering unlimited food, and I've noticed that the ones that are growing (the hatchling, the CB one I got a little over a year ago, and the rescue) seem to eat a ton, and it all seems to go towards growth, not obesity. The one that hasn't been growing (the big girl) seems as though she limits herself more with how much she eats when indoors. She usually eats about everyday, but sometimes she skips days on her own, and she doesn't eat as much as the growing rescue female. It makes me wonder if they are smarter than we tend to give them credit for (not constantly hoarding food for reserves that may not be needed).

I think temperature might also play a role in how much they're eating. I haven't noticed any signs of obesity in my torts...they do poop a lot though. If I do notice any signs of obesity, I'll start limiting their food. Right now they seem to be doing well though.

I enjoy talking to you about russian care. I always get a lot out of our conversations.

Here's an article that covers some of the issues on feeding:

tortoisetrust.org/articles/amteat.html

I also don't keep my torts anywhere near the heat levels you mentioned. When indoors I measure my temps with a remote temperature sensor (a probe on the end of a wire attached to a readout) and I just lay the probe on the hot spot.

When they are outdoors the air temps range from 40s to 105 or so (seasonally, not daily!), and the big limestone rocks they bask on are never excessively warm. Once when it was about 105 outside I measured the temp of the soil in their hidebox and it was 88F. I don't get temps like that very often in Missouri. When indoors they are basking under a 60 to 75 watt bulb maybe 6-12" over their head, with a max temp of 85 to 105 depending on the season.

They won't get obese. Thier is hardly any fat content in the greens that you feed, some fruits have a higher fat content, but you usually don't see them being fed to Tortoises. Carnivores get obese because people either feed them way too much, or don't give them the ability to let their metabolism do the work for them. Obese Herbivores/Omnivores are usually the direct result of improper diet or incorrect husbandry. My hatchling Redfoots that I keep inside are fed enough food to last them through the day and are given a 95 Degree basking spot, which they use when needed. They grow quickly and I havn't seen any signs of them having problems because of it.

>>They won't get obese. Thier is hardly any fat content in the greens that you feed, some fruits have a higher fat content, but you usually don't see them being fed to Tortoises.

Animals gain weight (fat or muscle) when calories consumed exceed calories burned. It doesn't matter if the calories come from fat, protein or carbohydrates. It's harder to get obese on a diet of grass and dandelions than on a diet of pork chops and cheese, but it's possible.

I measure my surface temps with a temp gun. You point it at a surface, press the button, and it tells you how hot that surface is. The readings are more accurate than using probe thermos for surface temps. They're designed for measuring the temperature of the air, so those readings would be a little different. I usually use them to measure my ambient temps (which are about 78-85 on the hot side, and 50-60 on the cool side (for my big girls in the basement...the cool sides are warmer for my other enclosures that are on the first and second floors of the house).

As an experiment, since I have the day off tomorrow, I'll toss the probes from some digital thermos under the basking lights, and then we can more accurately compare temps. Mine are probably still going to look comparatively high though, I don't doubt that. Keep in mind, these are the hottest basking spots. They don't spend all of their basking time under those points of their basking spots. I find they move closer or further from the basking spot depending on their temperature needs. Most of the time they like to bask around the basking, and not directly in the center, but once they have a lot of greens in them, they'll plop down right underneath the lamp to digest. I notice this with all of my torts. I have offered them multiple basking spots of different temperatures, but for some reason they were always attracted to the hottest ones, even when they opted to bask slightly outside of the light (at a lower temp).

Odd little dudes. tomorrow I'll have some more numbers for use to compare.