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Hi Terry there are 5 Elape we also find E frenata down South. There are also two Ptyas species. I thought they were considered Rat snakes?
The pics were taken in the North just outside Taipei

No open plains around here, most snakes are found by road cruising on scooters. Also in valleys were there is farmland. The farmers move rocks off there fields to the foot of mountains, rock tipping can be very productive there, and I love seeing the other critters besides snakes, and I must say the bush here is crawling with life, even on small hills and rivers in and around Taipei city.
I ride a bike trail long an estuarine river that runs through Taipei. The path runs next to a 4-mile long man mad rock pile. I ride it most mornings and afternoons, I find all sorts of snakes, Cobras, Rat snakes, vipers, and more, sunning them selves on the rocks. This is a heavily populated city, even this bike path has heavy traffic. The path is about 60 foot from the rock pile and the snakes hardly ever sun their full bodies. They are very aware and keep a low profile, no one ever notices them, unless they are on the move. It's amazing how the topography of TW does not allow man to take over I'm talking about flood areas from typhoons and zones with high land slide probability, which run through TW like veins. If TW was flat solid and safe there would be nothing left.

x

Fantastic post. Don't worry about it being down below. I think a new start, concentrating on the habitats of the island, is in order.

I was wondering about frenata. Schulz didn't list it for Taiwan, but I expected to see it there, since Taiwan has great habitat for it. You don't happen to have a pic of a Taiwanese speciman, do you?

Schulz didn't include Ptyas in his monograph ('96) of the Elaphe genus. They aren't considered to be as closely related as the other ratsnakes in the book, but rather a type of racer. It's nice to know they are there, however.

Your habitat/ecosystem descriptions are fabulous. That's just the kind of info I find very useful. I think, from looking at maps, there may be some plains on the west side of the island. I know the mtns are very close to the ocean on the east side and very precipitous. They can also be very high. Have you ever been skiing on the high slopes? I've read that temperate flora exist on high slopes too. Your farmland notes are exciting. I would do the same thing and would love to go rock flipping there someday.

I know the pit viper, Deinagkistrodon acutus, occurs on Taiwan. I don't think any other pit vipers are there, but maybe some regular vipers are there? I'm not too surprised cobras (Chinese?), Ptyas ratsnakes, and others are there, although it is surprising they can be found in Taipai itself. I would also expect a variety of natricine snakes and other small snakes, such as the Oriental green snakes. I'd like to start working on a list.

I agree that, if Taiwan was flat, as well as all of China, there wouldn't be any habitat left. Feel free to check out my Yahoo site and blog....

Happy New Year, everyone!

TC

ratsnakehaven's site

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Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

Dinodon, I don't know if you've used google earth or not, but it's a must-have tool for herpers! Depending on the resolution and date of the satellite imagery, it can be almost as good as flying over the areas in person. In most cases, it will answer some key, basic questions, without tenative exploration in person.
It's undoubtedly a pain for dial-up users, but still better than blindly searching for new areas via the road systems.

www.earth.google.com

Shane
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Lifelist

I have no pics of E frenata, they are found in the South. They are very hard to find, I know someone that has kept them in the past, he will have pics.
I'm meeting with his friend on the weekend to try round up my missing pics.

There is no skiing in TW, the snow is never deep enough and dosn't last long.

Yes teparate flora does exist even at very high elevations, and where you would expect to see open plains, they are coverd in long thick inpenatrable grass almost like elephant grass in Africa, It's very frustrating.

We find 6 different viper species 3 pit vipers. Trimeresurus gracillas, Trimeresurus mucrosqumatus and Deinagkistrodon acutus. We also find Vipera russellii siamensis, I know they react to themal cues but I'm not sure it they are true pits ?

Terry you have to come here to see for yourself

Shane thanks for the link, I'v never used it before.

I'v just found out why Schulz didn't list E frenata. They were first found or should I say identified in 1998 they might have been found and mistaken for Cyclophiops major. They are very rare - 3 or 4 end up being found each year. They are exactly the same as the ones found in China. This and their recent discovery is driving a debate if they have been here all along or if, they some how found their way here from China, in the recent past.

I was going to ask why they were only found in the extreme south. Climate and habitat should be favorable in the north also. Recent additions to the herpetofauna is a possibility that makes sense. Ah, island herps and ecology, it's great!

Cyclophiops major is a green snake, isn't it? I believe they were once classified with our green snakes in the U. S. It would be interesting to study their habits and habitats too. Thanks for the info....

TC

>>I'v just found out why Schulz didn't list E frenata. They were first found or should I say identified in 1998 they might have been found and mistaken for Cyclophiops major. They are very rare - 3 or 4 end up being found each year. They are exactly the same as the ones found in China. This and their recent discovery is driving a debate if they have been here all along or if, they some how found their way here from China, in the recent past.

>>I have no pics of E frenata, they are found in the South. They are very hard to find, I know someone that has kept them in the past, he will have pics.
>>I'm meeting with his friend on the weekend to try round up my missing pics.
>>

Good luck. Let us know what happens.

>>There is no skiing in TW, the snow is never deep enough and dosn't last long.
>>

Haha! I was just kidding about that. My point was that the mtns were high enough to get snow in winter, at least.

>>Yes teparate flora does exist even at very high elevations, and where you would expect to see open plains, they are coverd in long thick inpenatrable grass almost like elephant grass in Africa, It's very frustrating.
>>

That's interesting. Did you ever see snakes (dors?) on the road in that area of high grass?

>>We find 6 different viper species 3 pit vipers. Trimeresurus gracillas, Trimeresurus mucrosqumatus and Deinagkistrodon acutus. We also find Vipera russellii siamensis, I know they react to themal cues but I'm not sure it they are true pits ?
>>

Russellii is a true viper, not a pit. I thought they might be there. Your first pic was a juvenile russellii, wasn't it? The next pic looks like a "mamushi", like the "blomhoffi" compex Agkisrodons. Those snakes are awesome. I love the Agkistrodons. The third pic looked like a Trimeresurus spp. A fourth spp. not pictured would be the hundred pacer, D. acutus. That's the most awesome, and dangerous, Agkistrodon spp. in the world. Would love to see one of those in the wild. Did you mean there were two more species besides these first four?

>>Terry you have to come here to see for yourself
>>

Hope I can someday.

Terry

Yes I was talking about thhe smooth green snake.
Total 6 vipers, Ovophis monticola, Trim gracilis, Trim mucrosquamatus, Trim stejnegri, Deinagkistrodon acutus, and Vipera russellii siamensis.
Yes the first pic is a Russels, the second is Trim gracilis the last pic is Trim mucrosqumatus.

Wow...Deinagkistrodon! Hundred pacer! That is one awesome snake. Lots different than a hundred flower snake..heheh!

Thanks for posting...TC

When I was still into venomous snakes, until about 13 years ago, I saw these snakes regularly offered for sale at reptile shows. I always thought I'd give it a try some day, but then they were gone and I never saw them again. Coolest snakes ever!

>>Yes I was talking about thhe smooth green snake.
>>Total 6 vipers, Ovophis monticola, Trim gracilis, Trim mucrosquamatus, Trim stejnegri, Deinagkistrodon acutus, and Vipera russellii siamensis.
>> Yes the first pic is a Russels, the second is Trim gracilis the last pic is Trim mucrosqumatus.
>>

I was doing some research on the six viperids today and found that five are pit-vipers, Crotalinae. Only the Russell's viper is a true viper, Viperinae. The Russell's and the Deinagkistrodon I knew pretty well (didn't know they were in Taiwan), but the others were pretty new to me. I can see why there's no mamushi there. The Ovophis monticola and Trimeresurus gracilis are very much like the mamushis, Gloydius spps, in body shape. Trimeresurus stejnegeri, I believe, is one of those greenish, semi-arboreal types of pit-vipers, widespread in se. Asia. Trimeresurus mucrosquamatus has been changed to Protobothrops mucrosquamatus, in some recent literature, Biology of the Vipers (2002).

Very cool stuff. Keep up the good work.

TC