Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is the Formosa cobra Naja atra or is it Naja kaouthia. The reason I ask is because the Formosa cobras offered by breeders here in the U.S.A. at shows like Hamburg etc. are much diffrent looking than the Naja atra I have seen or read about. Also I have even read some accounts that say Naja atra are able to spit. The Formosa cobras on the other hand seem not to be spitters. Certian breeders here in the U.S.A. who breed morphs of Naja kaouthia refer to certian their hets as "Formosa phase". Can any experts help me out here? Thanks.

They are certinly kaouthia. even normal phase atra are near non exsistant in US collections or atleast were 5 yrs back when I was keeping Naja.

Formosa is a bogus name if i recall correctly. These kaouthia are not a local varient like some may lead you to belive. They are simply an abarent form of naja kaouthia though i do admit it has been several years since I discussed this and may have my facts alittle mixed up.

It is actually hard to say what they are. According to Wuster, et al. the Formosan Cobra is atra, just a lighter phase that occurs off the mainland. There are also naja X kaouthia intergrades that further convolute the debate. Certainly kaouthia, atra, and naja will all readily breed together in captivity mixing up the gene pool( which I personally do not support, but that's a whole different story).Also many dark Monocles have abberant hood markings and vice versa Chinese that have more uniform hood patterns. A lot of "labels" are placed on morphs such as "sunglow Monocle" or "sunset Monocle" but they are all basically the same snake that have been selectively bred to achieve the desired trait/color. Asian cobras are some of the most common, but understudied group of snakes and their scientific nomenclature is still changing and under debate. Only a blood DNA test can positively confirm which subspecies a given animal is, but I support Wuster as the authority on Asian cobra systematics and he has confirmed Formosa's as atra. As one recalls, Black Pakistan's were once classified as karachiensis and Suphans suphanensis. We now know that Black Pacs are naja and Suphans kaouthia, so you can see how easily classifications could change however. I am not sure if a DNA test has been performed on the "sunset/sunglow" Monocles but that could possibly lead to an answer. I hope I haven't just confused matters further and I don't profess to be an expert on the subject.
Drew.

Thank you very much guys.

I dont recall if the US "Formosa" cobras were confirmed as Naja kaouthia via scale count or DNA but there has been some confirmatin about them. You are right however. Atra, naja and kaouthia share very similar traits which can be hard to distinguish by merely looking at them. DNA is the only real way to confirm.

As for the true formosa, your right, they are N.atra based on WW's conclusions which I take as written in stone. However, I know the ones sold state side are not Atra as I know the people who strated the breeding project with them several years ago. They confirmed that they are nothing more then abbarent (i.e different looking) kaouthia. I think the mix up is that they look similar to N.atra which is why they are called formosa by some.

Id be interested in seeing a pic of a true N.atra from Formosa. I havent been to WW's site in quite some time so I will start my search there. If you have any pics I would lobve to see them.

Thanks for the interesting discussion ^^ This forum is dead as of late ; ;

Best regards,
Jeremy