Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Howdy--hey you all might consider a few other options for your horned lizards, if you are not in freezing climate you may catch moths as HLs love moths, if they are in a weakend condition but eating pull one or more wings off so they can catch the moth easily. ALso if you remember Cable and earwigs, if you live where you can find an earwig under a rock they are relished as well. I like to use wax worms which is counter to some of the conversations here, I have never had a problem with them, and if you do feed your animals super worms or any mealworms feed them freshly shed soft bodied, not the normal ones, but I agree that because there are other insect offerings that these should not be a mainstay for a horned lizard, mostly because they are not that nutritious, but variety is also important.......cheers!

Anyone else have food source insects that they use for small lizards or HL's?
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Phrynosoma.org

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

Repto,

I've had mixed results on wax worms. They hit 'em hard every time I've offered them. But I've noticed that if I provide more then one or two at a feeding, or feed the worms more frequent then every 3rd or 4th day, regurgitation is sure to follow. Have you had any experiences like that? I've stopped feeding them the worms, too worried about the affect.

As for moths, I have fed mine Wax Worm moths...they really go for them! But I haven't fed enough of these moths to see if regurgitation is an issue. Just the same, it's an interesting idea. It's relatively easy to get a container full of wax worm moths. Will give it more thought. Might be a really nice way to provide a little variety to the staple diet.

Also interesting note on the earwigs. I hadn't noticed the earlier posts regarding them, must have gotten by me un-noticed. We have earwigs up to our ears at our house. I think there's enough here to provide a steady diet for at least one animal, maybe or two. Never even thought to try it. Hmmm...I guess I have to assume they enter their outdoor enclosure, so maybe I'm already feeding mine earwigs and don't even know it. Have you found anything regarding the long term effects of earwigs in their diet?

Thanks,
Roger

RK-let me do some answering and speculation.

1. Yes I have had a horned lizard regurgitate a wax worm, but so have I for crickets and regular mealworms.
2. I feed them small wax worms and give large to my other lizards.
3. I am suspicious of the reguritation of lizards, because there are many reasons for this, including the fact that a horned lizard will over eat, I have seen this many times and this will cause regurgitation.
4. Have all of us coinsidered because Hl's are specialized ant eaters in nature, that this may also bear upon the intestinal fluids and the make-up of hL's and furthur supoports an ant diet?
5. If you look at all my posts, none of the "worms" that I feed my animals are anything like a mainstay feeder such as ants or crickets? I just feed them occassionaly to round out their diet, being opportunistic they do relish a change, but ants is and always have been my mainstay feeder.
6. If you are aquainted with snakes, it is a fact that temps can affect a snake and they will reguritate food as well. So I am suspicious from a lot of different angles as to whether this is the food, or the temps, or the specialty feeding gastrointestinal make-up of horned lizards.
7. I use freshly shed mealworms and baby super worms and they seem to be passed through right, but Mark and other have observed a regular mealworm comes out the other end often undigested, perhaps again this bears on the make-up of Hl's and their specialty for ants.......just musing here, certianly this is not scientific, but we can explore some of this---all of us this summer and perhaps get some answers?
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Phrynosoma.org

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

I also feed wax worms on occassion to round out the diet of my DHL's. They seem to love them over anything I offer them but only give them 1 or 2 at a time sporadically.

Earwigs are abundant here and feed them an occasional earwig. I usually pull of their cerci pinchers and had concerns feeding them excessive amounts of these due to exoskeleton like waxworms so figured shouldn't give too many at any one time

My lizards also go ape$h!t for 1" centipedes that are also very abundant during the winter months here. Other than that crickets are another favirite in time of low-ant availability.

Can you take a picture of these centipedes? I know that San Diego horned lizards as well as others just quoting from an old book like bees, so I don't think they are adversely affected by stings or bites, but a centipede has sharp madibles and a sting if I remember right, but I am glad you reported that as well, because again its good to find out new info on what they will eat. Will you also share (you may have already) what specie you have in capativity? I assume you also feed small wax worms to your animals as the big ones seem to be hard to swallow. Also with respect to wax worms do you notice any digestion problems, are the wax worms coming out undigested? Just curious. ALso know one wants to expose themselves but I was honest above, have you seen your horned lizards over eat and then throw up their meal later? Just curious. I only ask the question because I suspect rgurgitation may involve more than one issue or may be possibly caused by more than one issue.......Centipedes awsome! Are these those little red ones or the other type that are green and yellow that get real big?
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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

I am keeping 2 DHL's

No these are not the big yellow/blue/green centipedes. Those guys would be gnarly as their mandibles get big - but they are around here (Sacramento) too.

They are smaller red ones (where is my insect book?) and I try to feed them the smaller ones - they do get a little wary of the bigger ones - bigger ones do have mandibles but never been a problem to me or the DHL's. They grab them and head shake them in the sand and then proceed to swallow them - pretty cool.
I will try and take some pictures over the weekend and post.

I have never had any regurgitation in my expereince with HL's - kept a few species in the past. I read that here that meal/wax worms cause them to reguritate but never had that problem. Like I said, I try not to feed them more than 2 at a time and never seen them undigested either. I have seen a cricket come out undigested, but that is a rare occassion.

Thasnks for your post, certianly another possible insect to add to the list, and we have observed dsiffering experiences from different people with certian feeder insects, I have contended there are other issues invovled with regurgitation other than just insects alons, heat and temps, over eating, and other issues I believe can contribute. Keep us posted and your comments are welcomed, nice pair there!
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www.phrynosoma.org

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

I was worrying about the "ant supply" thing. Nice to know that I have other options.

Don in Portland