Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Excuse my ugley mug but it's the only adult pic I'v got of this snake. I got him as a rescue yearling kept him for 4 years. He was given to a collector in the South. I can't say I miss him much. I posted this pic before but it was in an old thread and you guys might have missed it.

Portraits holding a snake (could be a theme)!!

I did miss that pic before. That's an awesome King rat. He could probably make short work of my first ever Texas indigo, found last summer in Atascosa Co...

Thanks for the pic. That rat's weight would be interesting.

TC

Did not have a pic handy of me holding a snake but heres a couple of me with other herps in australia and indonesia. I like the idea of putting a face to a name. Makes the forum a bit more personnal.

I would love to get a king rat. I have never had them available to me but I will grab one or two if they are ever offered. I also want to get some tiger rats. I have had them before and love them. Thanks for the pic dinodon.

Terry, awesome indigo. I have only found one in my life and it was in my back yard when i lived in Texas. I was hoping to get one over here but am not sure if they can be exported. I figured I may have to settle for a cribo instead. Thanks for the pic.

Don

Hi Terry
I put the rat snake on a bath room scale and it weighed a little less than 6lb.
Nice big Indigo, I love finding large snakes, gives you some hope for the species future. last year I found a king rat much bigger than the one in the photo, I couldn't belive my eyes when I firt spotted it. I found it in the city. I susspect these snakes are eating stray puppies as well as rodents and fish, there are a lot of big rat snakes and a lot of ferral [bleep]es with puppies, in the same area, I did notice some of the litters get smaller, but I have no proof what happennd to the missing puppies. This comming summer I'm going to try find some proof of this.

Don, looks like you'v had some great adventures all over the world. Have you ever been to Africa ? I grew up on a farm there, my plan is to perchase a small game farm some where in the Noth of SA in two years. I'm very fond of hots, and other large reptiles living in an appartment, I'v had to limited my collection to smaller reptiles and non venomous.
Yes Don nice to see what you guys look like. Thanks for the pics.
Here's a pic of Achalinus formosanus.

That Achalinus is an interesting snake. Is it a constrictor? I know the genus is in Japan also.

That king rat was huge. A friend of mine has a near record Emory's ratsnake at about 1150 grams, and I thought that was a big ratsnake...

I wonder how big the record Elaphe carinata is?

I was stationed in Bangkok for over a year when I was in the army. There were a lot of feral cats and rats, etc, running around in the allies, etc. I imagine there were some large snakes too, such as the various pythons. I never saw a python, but I did see a big king cobra just outside of the city. I'm not sure about ratsnakes, but there could have been some radiated rats around. I was mostly interested in the water snakes, and was much younger then, and very inexperienced.

I hope you realize your dream of living in SA. That's a great idea of having a farm there, and I hope you stay in touch. I'm interested in getting to spend some time in Arizona and Texas and looking for some of my favorite herps. Of course, there's lots of ratsnakes and kingsnakes, but there's also lots of pit vipers, and various kinds of lizards, etc. Hours and hours of fun ahead...LOL!

Looking forward to Spring already...

TC

TC, Achalinus are invertebrate (mainly earthworms) feeders. Here's an interesting note about A. spinalis from Goris and Maeda:

"Found in both lowland and mountainous areas, this species is very sensitive to high temperatures and may die from being held too long in the hand. It is also highly sensitive to desiccation, dying within a few hours if placed in a dry environment."

That's great that you were able to find a King Cobra in Thailand........definitely one of my fantasy finds! The only herps I saw in Thailand were several DOR snakes (1 smallish AOR), and I wasn't able to stop and look at them. I hate being in neat places and not being able to herp!

Shane
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Shane, that's a great note on Achalinus. I didn't think to look it up myself, as I do have the same book now. Makes sense that its various species would be a lot alike. Weird snakes though.

I didn't see many snakes in Thailand, as I was only 18-19, and didn't have a terribly strong interest in the herps at that time. It developed more when I got into college and was looking to concentrate for my biology major. I did see a few, however, hardly knowing what they were. The water snakes, for instance, all seemed much the same to me. The cobras and kraits I knew something about, which is a must for workers in the field. There were a couple pythons on exhibit in little parks, but I didn't pay too much attention to those. I've never been into boas and pythons much. Wish I had known more about ratsnakes back then.

TC

The iridescence on that formosus is excellent! I'm hoping to find spinalis on my visit to Japan this summer.

In regard to South Africa, there have been some reports on other forums recently that you'd probably enjoy:

www.fieldherpforum.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=07c81483ff23241778fb758a4cf9c708
(Jeff Lemm posted a series)

p206.ezboard.com/Field-Observations/freptilesofarizonafrm1
(some nice Viet Nam reports as well)

Shane

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You're welcome.

I don't know if indigos can be exported. I know they're protected in FL, but I'm not sure about TX. They probably are...

King rats are pretty cool. They have some very interesting characteristics. I had one before, but they just get too big and I didn't have enough room to keep it very long. Maybe someday when I'm retired.

I like knowing what folks look like too, and seeing them in action sometimes. Is that a salt water croc in your first pic? What an animal. I could have been a herp farmer if my life had been a little different. I've dreamt of raising crocodilians and giant tortoises.

Sonoran sunset...

Cheers....TC

yes, they are protected in tx too but i think that there are licensed breeders out there. Just not sure if they are allowed to export them.

Yes, that is a saltie. I worked with crocs with Dr Webb and Rob Bredl (the barefoot bushman). Did some work with monitors and venomous species with Dr Fry. It was a good trip, got to do some different stuff but I will never go back. Just my personal opinion but to me australia was not nearly as good as indonesia for herping. It is just that many of the aussie herps are hard to get in other countries because of the export ban but that just causes hype (and high prices). Shingleback skinks sell in pet stores there for like 50 bucks compared to 2k in the US.

Gotta run, thanks,
Don

Don, the TX indigos are only state protected, versus federal for the Easterns.....there are breeders of both here in the states. I think Drymarchon are some of the most impressive snakes out there, but they aren't something I'm willing to keep due to their high metabolism.
While we're on the topic of south TX herps (I love south TX!), here are some pics from my old webhost:

Shane

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shane, well, now i can put a face to a name (for all the "regulars" except for John). Thanks for the pics, very cool. I have a pair of hognose but they still have another year before they will be big enough to breed. I really like them. I know the last thread or two have strayed off the forum topic a bit but since about the only ones who seem to regularly visit this forum are you, dinodon, John and Terry, then perhaps it is not a bad thing. I visit other forums as my interests are many but none of the other forums seem to have as friendly a group of people as this one.

To try to get back on topic I am wondering if dinodon or anyone else can give me some good info on the king rat. I am trying to work out a deal to build a very large reptile and wildlife park. I have a very large collection but am always trying to add to it with the park in mind. Most of my collection is at least pairs or trios so even in the event that the deal does not go through then i can always breed them for the pet industry (which i currently supply reptiles for anyway).
The king rat looks to be very impressive. I have never owned one and do not even recall ever seeing one. Any info would be great.

Thanks, Don

Hi Don
If you do get some king rats try to get CB. WC even very young are extremly hard to deal with, it,s very shy secretive snake, fast ,powerfull,and very allert to movement They truly are a hand full. I wouldn't recomend them to most collectors. They are so shy you'll hardly see them for the first few years, once mine got bigger They started comming out more often,But in no way are they good display animals, you do get the odd animal that is ok.
I was keeping mine in an appartment, They just got too large for my situation, I think for you they will be great, they one of the most interesting snakes I'v ever kept. Too me they seem like one of the more aware species or ''smart'' snakes. They are pretty easy to keep but can go off eating for long periods is disturbed too much. They do turn out to be very impresive, I had like a love hate relashonship with mine, I think they taught me more about husbandrey than any others snake I'v kept.

Don:
This is my first digital camera and so far the only things I've photographed are snakes and an occaisional landscape shot. Interesting that I've never done a self photo (but in this way I have avoided frightening any pets or small children that might view this site). I'll try and snap a shot of myself to complete the group.

Well we may stray a little from ratsnakes but I don't think anyone will mind too much. It has been fun. I agree some of the other forums and sites can come with a certain amount of attitude (misplaced in my opinion).

Best of luck with that reptile park idea. Maybe shows like the Croc Hunter have developed a market. There's a large pet shop in Rhode Island near me that has basically turned his store into a reptile theme "park". I think he makes much more money now from charging admissions for kid's parties to walk through his place than he makes selling reptiles and supplies. Of course he happens to have a large alligator tank and some pretty good sized tortoises and monitor lizards as a draw but I've toyed with the idea of exhibiting reptiles too.

Regards
John

Well, let me just say, I'm as guilty as anyone straying from the main theme of a strand; but, I also feel there are many things that help us to understand and describe the ratsnakes we love and their biology, etc.

Let's look at what the forum says is acceptable...

"Welcome to the Asian & European Rat Snakes Forum. Here you may post messages or questions pertaining to all aspects and issues regarding the keeping, breeding, health, and conservation of Asian and European ratsnake species."

I certainly think photos and discussion of ratsnakes, their native lands/habitats, and other snakes that inhabit the same or similar situations, are suitable for our forum. Discussing or posting pics of other kinds of snakes is stretching it a bit, but I firmly believe you don't understand the ecosystem until you know about most of the plants and animals that inhabit that ecosystem. To really know about a species you need to know about its natural history, including sympatric snakes.

I also think its important to know some things about the participants and it helps our understanding of each other as well as making it more fun. So, don't be shy...LOL!

PS: Don did some work in Australia with Dr. Fry and others. I think that's really cool. Dr. Fry has some very interesting perspectives on ratsnakes, including the proposal that some still have some toxic saliva, and the fact that ratsnakes may have evolved from venomous, rear-fanged snakes.

Later...TC

Don,

I don't keep Elaphe carinata, but I did have one for a couple years, a young one. There's lots of info in the literature, if you have any specific questions we can research for you. This is also a species that has been kept by quite a few folks that like large ratsnakes. It comes in an albino and hypo form also. There are probably several sites you can go to, but I have only one so far, Jim Kavney's site, Hiss 'N Things, which is still up, but not active. I don't think he keeps the snakes anymore (retired).

There are lots of photos still on the site, however, such as these....

I wish you luck getting the wildlife park started. Maybe I'll get a chance to visit someday.

King rats have a few generally known characteristics. They are heavily keeled (normally); they are known for strong musk (the Stinking Goddess); they are mostly a subtropical snake, which could explain why they aren't on the Korean Peninsula; they inhabit montane areas and are largely nocturnal, having partially eliptical pupils; and they eat a variety of prey, including other snakes, venomous and non-venomous.

I had a hard time accepting them as a member of the Elaphe, because of some of their different adaptations; but they do have some obvious ratsnake characters, such as a subocular scale (normally), color/pattern changes towards maturity, and racer/ratsnake behaviors. I still think they might have their own genus eventually.

There's a lot of variety in carinata and a couple different ssps, like the one on Taiwan and subtropical Japanese islands. There's a few different color/pattern forms also, along with the mutations being bred. Good luck finding them and let us know if we can help.

PS: Do you supply the reptile trade in Korea, or do you ship overseas, or both? Thanks...

Terry

I love South TX too. I might not be as enthused about large snakes, like the Drymarchon, but South TX has something for everyone. What a great place for herping.

Here's a thornscrub ratsnake, Pantherophis (Elaphe) emoryi meahllmorum from Brazos Island...


This is an F1 male showing some of the light color and pattern variation possible within this population. The habitat is very sandy, coastal dunes with a harsh climate, but pretty warm year 'round.

Shane, that was quite a group of photos. I'm assuming it included a massasauga, a Mexican hooknose, Mexican hognose, and a Schott's whipsnake, correct?

Let us not forget the rarer Mexican snakes too that just cross over. I have a strong interest in some, like the cat-eyed snake and the black-striped snake, etc. Hope to get some lifers this next summer.

TC

TC, sorry I forgot to include the IDs (your's are correct).......punched the submit button instead of the preview button first.
Good luck when you head down there; Leptodeira are also high on my list, but I've never taken the time to look for them around Sarita or Raymondville. If you do drive we should definitely try to meet up for a day/evening of herping in the Ouachita mtns. to look for "slowinski." There are also plenty of other interesting herps in that area. We'll have to keep in touch as the time draws near.

Shane
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