Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,
I have 1.1 Rubber Boas that were purchased as CB '03s in February of last year. The male has eaten consistently and grown well. The female, however, seemed small for an '03 and ate erratically and began regurgitating approximately 2 months after I acquired her (she didn't begin eating until a month or so after I got them). The weird thing is she'll do it in cycles. That is, she'll keep 6-8 meals down in a row over 1-2 months and then, with no change in husbandry, there'd be a regurge. And so on... This cycle has happened a few times now. She's not growing and is starting to look emaciated. She is kept in a small plastic Rubbermaid at around 72-75F (as per the ideal for this taxon) with plenty of places to hide. Water is offered every couple of weeks in the form of a quick soak (as some will not drink from a container in the enclosure and constant exposure to moisture is not ideal). These soaks never occur less than 2-3 days before or after a meal. Her Rubbermaid is exactly the same as the male's and they are side by side (and so are exposed to the same temperature variation).
Any insight as to what the problem is?
Thanks! MF

Sounds like you know what your doing. One thing I would try is to put her on heat tape. I keep all of mine on tape. I started out w/ a setup like yours but found I got better eating response when they were on tape. Warm her up just a little more, some snakes do better with a higher temp. as well as some do better w/ cooler temps..Of course have a cool side still. I keep water in w/ my boas, if they are thirsty they'll find it. I soak too, not as often as you but if I have a boa that looks a little drawn out, I soak.

Another thing to think about is if she is regurging as often as you say you should keep her seprated from all other snakes. And don't mix up waterbowls, soak tubs things like that. She could have a parasite. See if the heat helps before you worry about that though.
Good luck,
-Dell

Thanks, Dell. I had her on heat tape for about 2 months a few months ago, for the reasons you describe (I thought maybe this might stop the regurging - but to no avail). I also originally had water in with her, and removed it to see if this would stop the regurging - but again, to no avail.
She is in an area with no visual disturbances. Her Rubbermaid is slightly translucent so she should feel secure. She is never handled (ever). She has every reason to thrive like her mate, yet she won't. It's saddening. I also avoid any potential cross-contamination for the reasons you describe.
I am almost convinced that this is a congenital defect as I've worked with Erycines for close to 10 years and have never had a regurge (not even with Rosys). It's all the more frustrating that it's a Rubber that's regurging, as they're not prone to this.
Sigh...

IMO rubber boas dehydrate very easily. They seem to have thin skin. When I had them, they had a moist hide box which they used alot, and they never had skin problems or otherwise.

I know for alot of baby colubrids, access to a moist hide makes a huge difference in feeding reponse. I say this because I live in a dry area, and I have seen the difference moisture makes in neonate snakes.

Anyway, just something to ponder.

I tried a moist hide when I first got the animals (a shallow deli-cup with a hole in the lid and damp paper towel inside). The boas would make good use of them, however, I noticed that regurgitation would primarily occur in the moist hide. So that made me think that the moisture was causing it. After speaking with a man who works on the microbiology (intenstinal flora) of bottae and keeps and breeds large numbers of them, I was informed that humidity is a killer (contradictory to Hoyer's site) in these animals so I decided to focus on bi-weekly soaks instead of constant exposure.
I suppose there is no magic bullet and some animals are just less fit than others.
Thanks for your help.

Just curious if you are able to get this data to share will us?

Thanks,

Chris
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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps

I was put in touch with this researcher by the breeder of the boa (you all know the breeder, I won't mention his name) and spoke with him on the phone. He's a little eccentric, but highly knowledgeable, and his exact words were "water's a killer in bottae" - even the breeder has said "Rubbers HATE water. They'll get really sick from soaking or otherwise excessive ambient humidity." I tend to agree based on my observations.

Hmm…..interesting hypothesis. I could see how stagnant humid conditions “in captivity” could prove troublesome, but in the wild rubber boas would be able to move from one place to another to avoid a build up of micro organisms/disease. Having not had the chance to herp the North West US, I cannot say from personal experience, but I would think rubber boas spend a great deal of time in areas of relatively high humidity? Maybe someone else can give us a better idea of the rubber boa’s real habitat?

Just my 2 cents,

Chris
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Christopher E. Smith
Contact
Captive Bred Herps

>>I was put in touch with this researcher by the breeder of the boa (you all know the breeder, I won't mention his name) and spoke with him on the phone. He's a little eccentric, but highly knowledgeable, and his exact words were "water's a killer in bottae" - even the breeder has said "Rubbers HATE water. They'll get really sick from soaking or otherwise excessive ambient humidity." I tend to agree based on my observations.

I've never heard this rumor. Hate water? Really?

Having been fortunate to observe significant numbers of boas in the wild (thanks to my Father), I'd disagree with the statements from the eccentric researcher and the unknown breeder. I've never had negative experiences with boas kept in moist conditions, but have had negative experiences as a result of dry conditions.

A boa that has recenlty been in a moist hide has a skin texture similar to that found on a wild boa. I've seen a number of captive boas that have been kept too dry for too many years, and their skin is not healthy - very rough and beaded.

When surface conditions are dry in their habitat, searches are less productive. A moderate amount of surface moisture is best. As a general rule, I attempt to emulate wild conditions when keeping any reptile as a captive.

It was news to me, as well, since the only information out there is from the rubber boa website. The eccentric researcher has been on the guest chats here a couple of times over the years and the unknown breeder is actually a very well known breeder in Texas. As mentioned, I'm sure everyone knows who I am referring to but I prefer not to drop names. In the 10 years I've worked with other snakes of varying degree these two guys have been a consistent wealth of information.
What always made me wonder is if Rosys and Rubbers are supposed to be congeners, and Rosys are so susceptible to problems associated with ambient humidity, then it stands to reason that there is a risk in Rubbers. As mentioned, I am slowly having better luck with the slightly xeric conditions and occasional soaks.
Mike

I never cease to be amazed at what can be learned on the forums.

In our local mtns in So Cal we have rubber boas and Calif mtn kings. The habitat and seasons when you are most likely to find them lends one to believe that moisture is key.

On the other hand, I have since figured out that too much moisture on the surface soil is not conducive to seeing the animals.

Also, there is a condition known as "zonata disease" that can afflict captive zonata. I bring this up since the zonata and rubber boas often share the same habitat. I've always thought that too little moisture was the key. But, a friend who had a few hatchlings in different cages had the specimens in the mesh-top cages not get the condition, while the more enclosed and more humid shoebox specimens did. He has a snake room that has more ambient humidity than say my house.

Perhaps the answer is that these animals inhabit areas where they can find shelter that does not dessicate them, but is not damp either, at least most of the time. Perhaps these animals frequent a damp area when they need it, but stay away when they don't. Which makes your occasional soak idea a good one.

You should,IMO,leave a water dish in with your animal at all times, obviously if it runs out that won't be a major problem.
I whittness mine drinking all the time. Remember that in most captive environmentsthat humidity will be lower than in the wild. I usually find rubbers in very damp conditions under tins and boards, these animals can handle fairly high humidity and some level should be maintaned.All of the charina that I have at this time will quit eating ifthe water runs out and then eat again within a day or two of refilling, with the exeption of breading season then the males just don't eat with any kind of pattern.
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Steve Perry
North Idaho.

I should state that what I mean when I say leave water in the enclosure is that I leave a two oz. water dish with fresh water for drinking. If I notice an animal going into shed or see one trying to soak(they don't fit in two oz cup)I usually just spray them once or twice a day (not enough to build up droplets on the cage)I have never had a problem with regurge related to water. I have had gravid females regurge when they over eat and have seen rosys, rubbers and kenyans regurge if they eat just before or during a shed.
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Steve Perry
North Idaho.