Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi All!

I was just at a local petstore where I saw that their Rosy Boa was being housed on reptile carpet, with a half-log to hide under and some branches to climb on. When I asked the manager why they used reptile carpet instead of a substrate the Rosie could burrow in, she told me that their breeder had told them that as long as the tank stayed humid enough, reptile carpet was the best thing to keep snakes on, including Rosies. He also told her that they should not be kept in a burrowable substrate until they were at least a foot and a half long, because they tended to ingest the substrate.

What are your opinions on this? Since I've never raised Rosies I wasn't sure if she was right or not, but I've never before heard a breeder actually recommend reptile carpet.

A lot of what she said didn't quite seem to make sense to me - keeping a desert animal in a humid environment? How do baby Rosies in the wild survive without reptile carpet to save them from ingesting dirt?

Thanks for your time!

~jenny
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1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Lizard
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

jenny.thegreenes.org

These are all great questions. I've wriiten a novel here for you.

Regarding substrate ingestion - it is kind of like the cell phone on an airplane thing. There has been no proof that cell phones interfere with aircraft controls, navigation, etc, but in theory it seems possible. But because cell phone designs and operating frequencies change so quickly, there is no way the FAA can have planes tested constantly for every new cell phone design, so they just play it safe and ban all cell phones while in flight.

Alot of keepers apply that same school of thought. Play it safe, even though having a snake die from ingesting substrate has happened very few times if at all. It may be that the substrate did not cause the problem in the first place, but we play it safe just in case. Not a wrong approach. So, reptile carpet is a safe way to go, even though we really do not know if there was much danger to begin with.

In the wild, they deal with it just fine, but of course they have evolved to live on that soil type. But as is always said, captivity is not even close to the wild. Snakes kept in marginal conditions may be more sensitive to anything, including these wood particle substrates.

Seriously, if you've ever found a rosy in the wild, there aren't any aspen shavings around, or reptile carpet, or ground walnut. These substrates are so foreign to what a rosy has evolved in/on that it is amazing that the snakes do as well as they do in our plastic boxes. They definitely adapt to our captive conditions as much as our captive conditions provide for them.

Regarding humidity. Excellent question. I have seen the effects of too high of humid conditions on rosies, and it isn't good. But, moderate humidity is just fine especially when lots of ventilation is provided. Since rosies live underground most of the time, it is safe to say that they don't dry out. There must be some humidity level down there. Probably very stable and probably in the lower end of moderate. So if cage carpet helps maintain that level in that breeder's cages, then maybe that is why they recommend it. Sounds reasonable to me.

I have done a soak session with baby rosies once a week or once every few weeks in a plastic box with a water level of less than 1/4 inch for about 5 minutes or so. I think the babies are better off being hydrated like that and then kept dry between those soakings. I think it helps with feeding response. I live in an area that can get dry though. If I lived in Florida, I doubt it would be necessary to soak. Probably tough to keep rosies happy there anyway with that year-round humidity.

One other observation from my own collection. I've never seen a stuck shed on a rosy, no matter how dry I've kept them. I think that says alot about how well they do with lower humidity in their cage most of the time.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

The breeder didn't say that it helped maintain his humidity, he said that if one could maintain the right humidity there were no problems with cage carpet. To me that screams that new owners are going to have difficulties, because they won't have the experience the breeder has that makes reptile carpet work for him. That's more making sure that the petstore educates the buyer about the snake, though.

This rosie is probably about 10-12 inches, so not much of a baby. We're inland southern california, and it can get pretty dry around here too. At the moment, the humidity gauge in our kitchen is reading 30%.

Thank you very much for the novel, it answered all of my questions in an excellent manner Much, much appreciated!

~jenny
-----
1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Lizard
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

jenny.thegreenes.org

Sorry but i have to say, it's a petstore, and they will say anything to get you to buy whatever they have, troubles or not, they will push as hard as they can. Alot of places work off commision to so that contributes to even more crap they are willing to tell you to get you to buy something!

Not too many petstores work off commission. I used to work for a chain petstore, and did my best to convince people NOT to buy pets - if a stranger working at a petstore can convince you not to buy an animal just by stating the facts about it, you probably didn't want it that bad anyway.
Just don't forget that not all petstores were created equal and not everyone who works at one is a bad guy.

The petstore in question here is not the usual run of the mill store; I was applying there and got to talking to the manager after the interview was over, which is when she told me about the rosy. She seemed genuinely interested in its care and welfare, and we were just talking, she wasn't trying to make a sale.

Thanks anyway

~jenny
-----
1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Lizard
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

jenny.thegreenes.org

I'm just saying i don't like petstores, there should be more people who know what they are talking about there. Most of them here in pa yes run off commission, and i am not talking about Petco or Petsmart, i'm talking about little ones family owned and stuff.

Sorry if i offended you, but i don't trust anyone that says anything in a petstore, and usually they have no clue what they are talking about. Most of the chainstores higher people like 16 do just be cute and get people to buy things. It's sick but it's how it works, and if a customer gets talked out of somethign it may not be because they really didn't want it, maybe the person who talked them out of it knew what they were talking about and had a great point and that they should go to a show or something to buy one instead!

I know i def. have changed a few peoples minds at a petstore, because they didn't have anything ready yet and had no clue, so i showed them everything to buy that was correct and a book and a few sites to check out on the internet.
Good luck!

I'm out in California and haven't heard of anyone running a petstore off comission.

Chainstores don't hire anyone under 18 due to insurance issues But you're right, people get hired and told to sell. It takes a responsible employee to make sure animals go to good homes, and there just aren't too many of those out there. Call it a problem with society because good employees are hard to find anywhere
Don't condemn them all, just keep an eye out for that minority employee who could be a great boon to you. I had regulars that when I saw them I'd point out sales on things I knew they needed or take the time out of my hectic schedule to sit and talk to them about their animals or let them hold the ones at the store. Once in a while we get animals that are worth more than the store charges, and you bet those regulars were the first I pointed them out to. There's employees at other petstores I visit that I'll go to before others because I know they know what they're talking about.

Never hurts It's kinda like assuming all black dogs must be black labs. Wears the same color coat it must be the same, right?

~jenny
-----
1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Lizard
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

jenny.thegreenes.org

>>I'm out in California and haven't heard of anyone running a petstore off comission.
>>
Sorry, didn't mean for that to come off rude, just meant that we've got a big difference in how petstores around us are run
-----
1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Lizard
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

jenny.thegreenes.org

Having frequented pet shops in New England, NYC, Jersey & New Orleans...
It's rare to find pet store people who know more than very general info about the animals there; even in the better known/ well respected shops.
I don't even think about selling to(or buying from) pet stores anymore. Regardless of the info I try to impart, it seems to go in one ear and out the other.
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Thanks,
-JC
www.rosyboas.to

40 plus rosies and 0.1 Boa constrictor

My experience was that it just wasn't important to the company to make sure their employees knew about the animals. Employees get no bonuses, no raises, and usually no encouragement (I was even discouraged) to learn about the animals.

I suppose I am just extremely fortunate to have not just one but a few petstores around me with at least one employee who knows their stuff.

~jenny
-----
1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Lizard
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

jenny.thegreenes.org

Yes.....I worked at a pet store that if you sold a reptile it was so much commision if you sold a dog you got so much commission. That's how i know for a fact that they do do this! It was called THE PET SHOP, located in whitehall there is actually 3 of these stores one used to be in pburg nj as well! Not sure if it still is, i know it is actually under new managment!

hopefully new means better!
-----
1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Lizard
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
0.0.1 chupacabra (it ate our chickens)

jenny.thegreenes.org

I AGREE!! haha!