Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I feel rather silly at the moment for having visited the Horned Lizards forum first, thinking that my Acanthosaura would be there...Nope!

Anyway, I had some questions for people who know the subspecies - What exactly IS this guy? Is it even a guy? The people at the reptile store I got it from weren't sure about a lot of things about it. I did some research online, and know the basic temperature and humidity requirements, but I'd like to know if I've got a boy or girl and what subspecies it is.

I just got it today and snapped some quick pictures before putting it in its cage to get settled.

Any tips/suggestions on care? Things like "Mine only notices moving water" and "Mine LOVES mealworms" are what I'm looking for.

Thanks!

~jenny
-----
1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Lizard
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

jenny.thegreenes.org

Hi!
It would appear that you have a capra, looks to be a female, but I can't say for sure. If you could post a pic of the base of his/her tail, I could tell you more. Before I go rattling off opinions and info about them go to froggieb.com. That is the best source of info out there for them, all in one place. I would recommend reading that over, then, if you still have questions, let us know. That way we'll be more on the same page. The only real difference I know of from that site, is they actually need slightly higher temps. than what was once thought (about 85F). Your best bet for up-to-date info on them are forums like these. We are always discussing cutting edge methods of keeping/breeding them. Though that site is an excellent start. There is another good forum at repticzone.com you should check it out. If you like what you see, you could join there also.

Regards, Evan

P.S. This is my male.

That was indeed the site I visited and got a great deal of information from before I purchased the lizard

I actually had a question, after reading some oooold posts here on this forum, about deworming. What do you folks use/ do you always go to a vet? I'm guessing I can pretty much assume my animal has a parasite load since it was imported, which means I need to treat it. Best methods of doing so? If I can avoid a vet trip that would be best, as I have yet to find a good vet around here. If I do absolutely have to go to a vet, though, the sooner I know the better!
Also... the thought's occurred to me that she is awfully big around her midsection for how skinny the rest of her looks. I'll take more pictures tomorrow if she seems to be doing alright. She does not have any hemipene bulges that I can see, but I could be missing something
In the event that she IS a she, how do I know if she is in fact gravid?

Thanks for your response!

~jenny
-----
1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Lizard
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

jenny.thegreenes.org

Hi!
The best thing to use to worm them is panacur (fenbendazole). That is usually all that is needed. The only way to get it, or any other worming med is through a vet. You might try just asking your nearest vet if they would sell you a small amount of it. Explain your situation and see what happens. Aside from that, there really isn't a way to. I wouldn't take her to a regular vet though, they will not usually want to de worm them for some reason. The panacur is a broad spectrum wormer, so it exerts an effect on most of the common types of parasites.

Yours is definitely a female, I have no question about that. That is exactly the way mine look. I'm not sure why, but all the males I have seen in person appear light brown to tan. Maybe my pet store gets them for a certain locale, because I have seen pics of green ones in past. Not sure. All my females are blueish green to pale green, except one who is brown. Not really sure why.

You will feel and see lumps on her mid section if she is gravid. This might take a while though, I had one female who just laid eggs where I could only feel the eggs themselves about a week before she laid them. So you'll have to wait it out. There's nothing else really to do until you can feel them. Depending on how long the pet store had her, and whether or not she was in with any males, you may have eggs within the coming weeks!

She is very pretty by the way, nice full color.

Regards, Evan

Thanks so much for the advice! I lucked out - while waiting for our dog to get stitched up from a cut today, I was talking to another vet who's friends with my mom. She gave me the number for the reptile vet she uses and loves, so hopefully this will be the end of my hunt for a reptile vet in my area who actually knows reptiles!

Jobi's post below was rather interesting. I guess I'll just have to keep my eye open for another one that looks like mine. What an interesting turn of events!

Thanks again,
~jenny
-----
1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Lizard
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

jenny.thegreenes.org

This young male is of the much larger capra like ssp, not the same as J3nnay and my example lizards, ours don’t show as large dewlaps and hempen bulges.

Obviously you can’t tell them apart yet you go on about coloration and such, why?

I find your advising quit retrograding and useless, if I was a new keeper seeking advise, then your post would have completely misguided me.

Your approach to deparasiting is ridiculous, first any good vet will perform faecal to determine witch parasites he’s dealing with, then will prescribe an appropriate drug in specific dosage. None whould ever send any drugs to be blind used on lizards. However the first problem is that vet medicine is based of worm blooded animals, reptiles use basking to regulate parasite as they can’t tolerate high temps.
This has been going on for millions of years, nothing new.

An other reason why treating with drugs is ridiculous, parasites are in all (no exception) foods you will ever feed your lizards. Insects and vegetal all harbour parasites.
Of course vets all know and understand this, this is why dog and cat food are processed, a cats natural diet is rodents and dogs are scavengers in nature, both living fine with parasites. What they don’t understand is reptile biology, you can’t keep them sterile.

Heyheyhey, I don't wanna be the cause of an argument here.

EBWhite meant well, and the advice was good - read up on caresheets and then come back and ask specific questions. Telling species apart that look as similar as these do is hard, which is why I came here for opinions. My dragon looks almost exactly like your male, and so I believe you might be right as to what it is. EB doesn't have the same resources you do, and made the best conclusion on the evidence at hand.

The caresheets I have read all say take the lizard/the poop to the vet for a fecal, so that is what I am going to do. I'll keep in mind what you have said and see what the vet says about treating the lizard. He's obviously doing well without having been treated for parasites, but I just want to make sure there's nothing really bad lurking in his little bowels.

Thank you again Jobi for your excellent information and advice.

~jenny
-----
1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Lizard
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

jenny.thegreenes.org

jobi,
Please don't accuse anyone of being rude towards you ever again on this forum. What you said here was very rude. I am not going to explain myself, there is no reason to. I am glad for future people who come here that they will have you to advise them. Hopefully they will not be misguided or fed useless information. I never offered solid opinion on anything I didn't know. Your comment about me discussing their color was quite rude. I was not trying to identify any of these lizards. When I see published information that says there are several capra subspecies, then, and only then, will I believe it. If you feel none of your information will ever be published, as you say very often, then I guess I won't believe it.

The parasite issue has always been an interesting one to discuss. For anyone out there reading this, researching it and gaining your own opinions about the issue are the best way to inform yourself. There are a couple different opinions out there apparently, you just need to experience it for your self. I apologize for offering incorrect and useless information. It won't happen again. Good bye.

Evan

sorry but I have no feelings for you, if you take this personal I dont care. you simply do not have the experience to advise the way you do, get over it.

I whould say this to any one regardless who or how many books,and pleas dont play the victim, you only need to read down a few posts to know my take on this matter, obviously you posted with the intent to flame.

you can say anything on these lizards, if its not acurate I will voice my opinion, of cours baked up with expertis.

most folks have missed the thread you and your budy have posted on my behalve, I ask for them to be deleated.
I see your intent of trolling this forum remains, from now on I will ignor you guys.

he looks in good condition, whatever you are doing must be good.

This species is not discribed yet, it's from south Vietnam.
your looks like a young adult male, will double in mass.

The reptile store was doing a good job, not me. I've had him for barely 24 hours.

He doesn't look much like a he to me, but then my experience with these is limited to..pretty much him and another subspecies that was housed with him.

Here's some crotch shots.

Top view of base of tail:

And then another head shot just cause I think he's purdy

Thanks again for your info!

~jenny
-----
1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Lizard
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

jenny.thegreenes.org

It's a girl!!!!!

This specie is unlike coronata and most acanthosaura’s in that it doesn’t show hem penal bulge, especially at this size.
I said yours looks like a male to me because of its large nuchal spines, however this lizard may very well be a female? You will know for sure when introduced to other of his specie or if she lays eggs. Hears a photo of a known male and female, you be the judge!

Understanding reptiles parasites, This out dated booklet seems to turn every keepers into know it all vet tecks. I see them on many forums advising on thing they don’t really understand.
Treating reptiles with drugs is very dangerous for the animal, in most cases treatment causes more harm then good. These lizards have delicate organs that are easily damaged by drugs, droncit, panacur, flagel or any other drugs will do damage.

Panacure was massively prescribed 20-30 years ago by vets, because it was the drug that was considered the safest, so this became the generalised and accepted drug of choice across North America. Farther studies showed its limited use on most parasites, so many vets turned to droncit and even more turned to flagel.
This is a multi billion $$ industry, admitting any med is unnecessary would create chaos in the medical world, theirs no vet other then a true personal friend who will advise you to not treat your lizards.

I am telling you as a friend of your lizard, do not treat him, use proper husbandry and let him work with his parasites flora, some of those are vitally important to his organism others will be expulsed naturally, all this with no liver damages or any other organ damage and his immune system will remain intact.

When a lizard suffers from parasites, its your husbandry that needs fixing not your lizard, take it from someone with 30 years of herping under his belt, I have been in charge of 100,000s imports to show for, and have used all drugs and tried many possible ways of administration. You can’t compare this with most keepers experience.

Always remember this as it’s undisputable, a sterile lizard is a dead lizard final.
Regardless of what science says this fact remains.

You're right, my lizard looks a LOT like your known male. Hopefully I can nab another one of the same Ssp from my reptile store. Next time I'm in I'll mention it to them. Where did you get yours from?

I actually just got a recommendation for a good local vet, so I'll give him a call and see what he has to say. What you say reminds me of WC chameleons and how they live naturally with a constant fungal infection on their skin, but only if their immune system is fully functioning and not weakened by stress. I'd imagine something similar could be possible with these guys, only with their insides.

Thank you so much for the info!

~jenny
-----
1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Lizard
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

jenny.thegreenes.org

Here is my male of the same species I believe (A. ryanae perhaps? LoL!) His colors are similar to Jennay's when he is Excited/Sleeping, maybe with more Aqua though.

And the horns seem longer, like with Jennay's.

Crotch Shots=Funny
-----
Ryan

Hmmm, yours seems to have larger nuchal spikes than mine and he's a lot redder around the face area. How old/big is yours? Do you have his weight?

Mine ate an earthworm today Well, I didn't actually see him eat it, but I put it in there this morning and now it is not there. The crickets also seem to be vanishing, although I don't know when or how, since he never seems to move from his branch.

I kept giggling while taking the crotch shots. Nothing makes you feel sillier than taking pictures of your animal's privates to show everyone and say "Sooooo whaddya think?"

~jenny
-----
1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Lizard
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

jenny.thegreenes.org

Mine is about full grown. He was wild caught so I have no idea how old he is. Also, I don't even bother weighing him since a full belly can make all the difference in weight. If he ate two worms, his wieght would increas by 20grams. I don't if that is right or not, but stil can make a big difference. So I don't bother.

If Jobi thinks youy's is going to double in mass, than mine is most likely a bit older.

Also, is it possible the worm got into your substrate? That WOULD explain why he isn't there now. Hahaha. Also, crickets are excape artists, and tend to die. But here is what I think:

I notice that MHDs who spend most there time up hiegh (+2ft) Tend to make a routine visit to the ground, usually during the cooler hours of the day, to eat, drink, and deficate, then return to the exact same position they were in (Referred to as their "favorite perch"- by me). So, if you see signs of defication, or other things of that nature, it is assumable that your MHD spent time hunting also. That doesn't mean he caught anything, but he did make an attempt.

At least this is how it works with me : )

This is the same dragon, a while back. He goes from Blue to Green to Brownish/red.

-----
Ryan

Huh, in that shot he does look like mine. I'll be damned. Mine hasn't done any color changing yet. Must still be settling in.

I actually don't have any substrate in there right now because I want to be able to easily see and collect poop for a fecal. I'm using papertowel and nope, the worm isn't anywhere to be found. Judging by the size of my guy's belly, I'm pretty sure I know where the worm went.

I'm aware of basic lizardy behaviors, I was just joking a bit about my lizard's talents at only moving when I'm not looking (makes sense for a prey animal).

I worked at a petstore for over a year and am well aware of a cricket's talent at escape and suicide. It's almost ridiculous the places they get into. While changing after a shift I've gone to put my pants on and squished a cricket in the leg. Rather gross!

~jenny
-----
1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
0.0.1 Mountain Horned Lizard
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

jenny.thegreenes.org

Kind of funny. In reference to the color, I have noticed, at petstores MHDs seem to be more colorful, unless in poor health. But otherwise, you may find that once they calm down a bit and get used to the same surroundings everyday, their colors seem to fade. Until, of course, you move them or rearrange their tank. I observed this today. Anyone else notice this?

-Here are all of his shots

-----
Ryan

She looks alot like my Genie did when I first got her. She still has green but not as bright as when she was younger. I wasn't sure of her sex at first but she has laid eggs for me.

-----
BONNIE