Reptile & Amphibian Forums

good point below in the Oocatochis thread. The new taxonomy has rearranged the relationships between a number of families and species in some surprising ways. For the most part some of the new groupings are as yet poorly supported (for instance putting Coelognathus and Gonyosoma in the racer clade is below 50% support). But others show pretty high statistical support. For instance there is better than an 83% correlation for placing Coronella in the ratsnake family. The same of course could be said for lampropeltis, pituophis and several other groups we don't typically call ratsnakes. But currently they have places on the Kingsnake.com site (some have one or more forums of their own). But Coronella doesn't seem to have a place (at least I haven't seen them here). I'd love to see any photos or info on them. So if any of you folks from Eurasia (or any Americans who happen to have experience with them) have info I'd be very interested in seeing it.

Best regards
John

John, some good points about the taxonomy. I'm glad you have an interest in it, otherwise I might not have anyone to talk to about it...LOL! I feel kinda the same about Gonyosoma and Coelognathus being placed in the racer clade. The bootstrap support isn't great, and I think it's a little premature. I think they could be related to the ratsnakes and the racers.

Why Coronella has never been imported into the U. S., I'm not sure. Maybe they are just protected everywhere they exist, or maybe they're just really hard to find. When you think about it, the U. S. exports lots of species to Europe, but hardly anything is imported from there. I certainly have never seen or heard of any Coronella (two spp., correct?)

I do know a guy that herps a lot in various European countries and has an account on Webshots. His name is Konrad Mebert, and here is a smooth snake (Coronella spp.) that he photographed, which you can also see at Webshots. You may need to make an account there to see his page...

I don't have very much info on Coronella, but believe there are two species, austriaca and girandica(sp?). I think one of these spp. is live-bearing. I believe they are montane snakes also, as opposed to lowland, wetland-dwelling rufos. They are fairly small snakes which probably feed on small prey, maybe reptiles, amphibians, and newborn rodents.

Since I now know they are ratsnakes, I'll probably have a little more interest in them...

Terry

Ask and ye shall receive. Interesting photo. I'll have to dig a little and see what has been written on them.

Oh yeah, the taxonomy is fun. It's like a jigsaw puzzle with half the pieces missing. Fun and frustrating.

Best regards
John

I can tell you a thing or two about Coronella, but I have no experience keeping them. Where I live, The Netherlands, Coronella austriaca is protected by law. The other species, Coronella girondica, is not available commercially.

I have captured (and released) Coronella austriaca a couple of times, but it is very rare in The Netherlands. It can only be found in protected areas like National Parks. I still remember that it kind of surprised how similar they are to ratsnakes. They don't have any flashy colours, but when you hold them in your hands you must be blind not to see how beautifull these shiny little snakes are.

Coronella primarilly feeds on small lizards and slow worms (Anguis fragilis). Adults can sometimes be tricked into feeding on fuzzy mice, ocassionally that is. Juveniles are way too small to feed in pinky mice even if they liked them, which they don't. Some can be persuaded to take crickets, and I once have seen a picture of a juvenile feeding on a worm. But all in all, if you don't have a steady supply of cheap lizards that you can always count on, then keeping Coronella is not a reasonable option.

Herman, thanks for your comments. That was very helpful. Is girondica the more southerly species then?

Regards...TC

Hey Terry,

Yes Coronella girondica is found in southern France and in Spain. Coronella girondica is a montane species, but C. austriaca can be found at much lower altitudes in the northern parts of it's range. They are adapted to cooler climates, but they do like to bask, quite a lot actually.

There may be some German guys out there where you could legally obtain a few CB specimens, if you like the challenge.

Take care,

Herman.