Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone know any Vietnamese blue beauty breeders?
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0.0.1 California King Snake
0.1.0 Ball Python

Rise Above:
I was hoping one of the breeders would volunteer a message. I'll try to find an answer for you
Regards
John

Rise Above:

East Bay Vivarium is listed as a breeder of VBB and have a good reputation. I don't think they have any at the moment but you could get in touch with them. There are a few listed in the Kingsnake Asian Ratsnake classifieds at the moment. One seller is Glades Herp. They are a larger dealer and probably bought the snake from someone else. Nothing against them just that they are probably not the breeder. You can get in touch with them and ask them about the snakes.

Hopefully this will help you to get started looking around. Another thing you can do is send an e-mail to people who post photos of nice VBB's here and ask them who they bought them from.

Good luck
John

Thanks, it looks like East Bay Vivarium has a c/b yearling. I'll see if they still have him.
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0.0.1 California King Snake
0.1.0 Ball Python

Call me crazy but arent blue beauties from Burma and the edge of Thailand?

I see people calling them Vietnamese all the time, did something change that I was not aware of?

That's the range (Thailand) that Schulz identified in his book for the unnamed subspecies that looks exactly like blue beauties. I never found out whether this was a different subspecies (unlikely) or whether its range reached into Vietnam (unlikely) or whether someone got a shipment of reptiles (including blue beauties) that came from Southeast Asia and was told they all came from Vietnam.

In any case the name has stuck.

Regards
John

yeah, the name has stuck.

I kept blue beauties back in the mid to late 90's when it was well known they mostly originated from Burma and Thailand, but I dont doubt that some made their way to vietnam then were exported.

I guess im just bothered by a incorrect geographic moniker placed on a animal.

maybe im just more tweaked that they have no formal subspecific taxonomy yet.

I know what you mean. They're so obviously distinct that they deserve some kind of description.

I think I read somewhere that there is work being done to split the beauty snakes into more than one species. So maybe they're holding off work until the whole study is done.
Regards
John

Hi Telefrag

I have a pair of Blue's that where in imported into the UK from Vietnam, but like you would not like to summarize that this was there original country of origin. I guess this is the reason why they have been dubbed with the vietnamese badge, another 'common name' theory i heard was that the colours of these animals is the same as the vietnamese pottery. Would be nice to discover for sure the natural history and range of these beautiful snakes.

John I've also heard rumour of a shake up with in the Beauties and also read somewhere that the blue's may actually be proposed as being a Gonyosoma sp. ??? Certainly will be interesting to read the results of there work when it's complete.
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The Ratsnake Foundation Online Society

Sue:
If they keep shifting everything to Gonyosoma we'll have to rename everything the Racer Family. I'd be surprised if taeniurus went to Gonyosma but hey, what do I know?

These reports are fun to read. But every question they answer produces two more things I wnat to know.
Best regards
John

>>Sue:
>>If they keep shifting everything to Gonyosoma we'll have to rename everything the Racer Family. I'd be surprised if taeniurus went to Gonyosma but hey, what do I know?
>>
>>These reports are fun to read. But every question they answer produces two more things I wnat to know.
>>Best regards
>>John

Perhaps Gonyosoma is going to be the new Elaphe LOL
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The Ratsnake Foundation Online Society

have to think if something else other than "blue racer" to call it if that happens.

teehee

>>Sue:
>>If they keep shifting everything to Gonyosoma we'll have to rename everything the Racer Family. I'd be surprised if taeniurus went to Gonyosma but hey, what do I know?
>>
>>John

John, you know a lot. That's why your gut tells you it aint gonna happen. Beauties are a ratsnake, not a racer. However, the situation does point out the fact that there is likely some kind of relationship bt. the ratsnakes and Gonyosoma and probably Coelognathus too. I've always said all these genera are part ratsnake, part racer. That's the way the ancestors were.

The controversy is in the species, Orthriophis taeniurus. The species is extremely variable, and it's likely the southern forms belong to a separate species from the northern forms. In other words, ridleyi and grabowskii probably should be in another species, while taeniurus would keep all the northern forms, including the blue beauty. We have discussed the blue several times through the years, and it was decided that they were likely exported from Vietnam, and that's how they got their name. Their range barely enters Vietnam, if at all, imho. I'm not the expert, just what the known facts seem to support.

Later (I'll be in AZ tomorrow)....Terry

Terry:
I hope you have a great time in Arizona. We got our Nor'easter yesterday but it wasn't the apocalyptic storm that was hyped. Just messy and inconvenient.

I guess splitting the beauty snakes is one of those lumpers vs splitters tugs of war. If corn snakes and fox snakes are different species then why can't taiwans and cave rats be too? But then I always ask why is a northern pine and a baja gopher still one species? Too deep for me.

Best regards
John

>>>>Sue:
>>>>If they keep shifting everything to Gonyosoma we'll have to rename everything the Racer Family. I'd be surprised if taeniurus went to Gonyosma but hey, what do I know?
>>>>
>>>>John
>>
>>
>>John, you know a lot. That's why your gut tells you it aint gonna happen. Beauties are a ratsnake, not a racer. However, the situation does point out the fact that there is likely some kind of relationship bt. the ratsnakes and Gonyosoma and probably Coelognathus too. I've always said all these genera are part ratsnake, part racer. That's the way the ancestors were.
>>
>>The controversy is in the species, Orthriophis taeniurus. The species is extremely variable, and it's likely the southern forms belong to a separate species from the northern forms. In other words, ridleyi and grabowskii probably should be in another species, while taeniurus would keep all the northern forms, including the blue beauty. We have discussed the blue several times through the years, and it was decided that they were likely exported from Vietnam, and that's how they got their name. Their range barely enters Vietnam, if at all, imho. I'm not the expert, just what the known facts seem to support.
>>
>>Later (I'll be in AZ tomorrow)....Terry
>>
>>

John, taxonomy certainly is interesting and controversial. I wonder if ridleyi has any contact with any of the northern ssps?

It's beautiful in s. AZ today (70*F.+), but the trip down certainly was a pain. Finished the paperwork on our new house already and close next week. It's a great place with lots of habitat. Plan to see lots of herps right in the yard.

More later...TC

>>Terry:
>>I hope you have a great time in Arizona. We got our Nor'easter yesterday but it wasn't the apocalyptic storm that was hyped. Just messy and inconvenient.
>>
>>I guess splitting the beauty snakes is one of those lumpers vs splitters tugs of war. If corn snakes and fox snakes are different species then why can't taiwans and cave rats be too? But then I always ask why is a northern pine and a baja gopher still one species? Too deep for me.
>>
>>Best regards
>>John

One of my females just laid a clutch today and I'm expecting another clutch from my second female in 1-2 weeks.
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Finis Coronat Opus! - "The End Crowns The Work!"