Reptile & Amphibian Forums

6 baby natalia hatched this morning after 66 days of incubation, I believe these are the first ever captive born, Manthey is presently working with these, but have not gotten eggs yet?.
For those who don’t know about this newly described specie, they are most striking in coloration and ornament, they also have excellent disposition on par with the very similar acanthosaura capra.
I incubated them following a technique I developed last year, the green algae are from the light I use 12h day as heat source, it’s actually a simple 25w light bulb suspended over the egg container that allows temps of 86f daytime, night temps drop to 76f, these conditions have increased incubation speed from what’s been documented by other keepers to 66 days, these eggs need substantial raise of humidity near full term for the babies to be strong and vigorous ( I actually spray them).

Jobi!

May I be one of the first to congratulate you! WOW! Good to hear the update on disposition too, I was wondering how they compared to the other species.

The babies look like they have a lot of color around the face already too, please update us as they develope! Are there more eggs or were these 6 all you had?

Marcia
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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

Actually these are clutch no2 I killed the first clutch because I didn’t water them on time. They must be watered as soon as they start being wet. I have 3 more clutches incubating. 15-7-7 only 15 are from the nice color morph,all others are from typical natalia morph.

Do you mean you have to water them when the eggs begin to sweat?
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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

The egg shell is actually a porous membrane, eggs sweat to soften this membrane, this make it easier for the embryo to brake free.

Diet or retention may affect this membrane, I am trying to understand how.
Meanwhile when my eggs start sweating I add water and keep hydration 100%, this seems to help them hatch.

A few times iv seen babies slit the membrane but die without hatching, this is not normal, I am trying to understand why and how we can avoid this.

This is interesting. I guess I never realized why the eggs sweat but that makes perfect sense. I know that I have always keep things pretty moist at hatching time but never realized the impact this would have on the hatchlings. I know that my hatch rate has always been good and perhaps the increased humidity is part of the reason!

Thanks!
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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

np

Looks like natalia love water, all babies went for a dip within 5 min of being introduced to there cage, one is actually trying to catch his first meal, only problem it’s a giant meal worm (see adult beetle in back ground)

They seem more outgoing them my capra like.

Is this one giant step towards mankind or what? Really, they look just like any other dragon to me... good job none the less.
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Ryan

The first thing you notice when breeding reptiles, is how some species are difficult, not only to keep but also to incubate and raise the young’s. Theirs far to many breeders who will testify that babies of some species are much problematic, the first problem being feeding. Not only with lizards but any reptiles.

To these breeders I say, nonsense!
If baby reptiles of any species would be problematic, reptiles would not be one of the most successful animal on the planet. It’s the tools you provide the adults with that leads to good eggs, then it’s how you care for those eggs that makes for strong babies.
This you will totally understand when you master all aspect of husbandry, this unfortunately involve many failures I am trying to help you avoid.

The fact that these babies are doing well shortly after hatching says a lot more then you can understand, almost perfection.

Keeping them alive = easy!
Breeding them = not so easy!
Having them nest = not easy!
Hatching them strong = complicated!
Doing this repeatedly and consistently = commitment, devotion and dedication!

Yes, well very motivational to say the least.

Keeping them alive, I want to do. Which of course, is easy. Breeding them, I don't care to do. However, for me to consider my MHDs healthy, they must be in breeding condition. Which I suppose means females laying eggs without the assistance of a male, which I have seemd to have accomplished. Check. So, nesting would be my problem right now. And of course hatching strong wouldn't apply to me either, unless females can produce fertile eggs by themselves.

And in case you're wondering, I think my next step for MHDs would be to gget two female armata, and try to get them to lay eggs by themselves (by means of building a brand-new enclosure, which I would make a few slight improvements to in comparison to my current design. And wouldn't you know, the improvements are exactly what you have suggested to me... go figure)

Now if I could get your E-mail address to send you a link for something you will only find out about if you give it to me. Don't worry, no hate mail or "flaming" (whatever that is). Strictly MHD material that I need your insight on.
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Ryan

Science has recently affirmed that lizards can produce viable eggs without the presence of males. Therefore yes it is possible you have live embryoned eggs?

However this should not stop any keeper from providing good nesting options, as any female can die from egg retention.

You are right about health and breeding, they go hand in hand no dough.

steeveblain3@sympatico.ca

I'm not going to send you the thing I was going to send you. I'm too busyand it doesn't matter now anyway : )
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Ryan

Jobi, I would like to re-address my armata. I am still watching the 4th female. She dropped one egg around Christmas and it was hard and rubbery. She has never stopped eating and is still nice and plump, legs are well filled out, and she is actively visiting the bottom of the viv, using the water, and the heat lamp. I have palpated her and am certain that I was correct in thinking that she is re-absorbing her eggs. I can still feel a couple of lumps but they are getting smaller. She only dropped one egg but there were several lumps before Christmas and now only two or three obvious lumps. So, what makes the difference that 3 would die and one will carry on and re-absorb the eggs?

This was the submissive female and she is still very shy. I do leave this viv alone except for water changes and spraying, which they seem to love. The reason I feel they enjoy the spraying is that they display no increase in respiration, they lap up the droplets from the leaves and vines, and they splash and rub their heads on the vines during the shower. I use a 3-gallon garden sprayer that you pump up. It has a long wand so I don't have to get close to the animals and I set it so that instead of a hard fine spray they are getting a more natural rain sized spray showering down on them. I usually spray until they stop drinking and then the viv has the rest of the day with the basking lights to dry out.

Anyway, I think this is curious. I have read about females re-absorbing eggs but have never experienced it with any of my females.
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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

I already said all I think about your females and why they fail.
My opinions remain unchanged.

Ryan, The hatchlings do seem to look very similar at first but there is a lot more green on these than what my capra-like hatchlings showed right out of the shell. Usually they came out very dark or medium brown and colored up as time went on.

I also had great success with my hatchlings eating right away. Not all of them take to the water so soon though. My coronata babies seem to like the water much more than the capra like too.
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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

And as usual, thank's for those info...