Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

I have a captive bred and born male O. p. laticinctus from '06 and he's rather aggressive. He doesn't tolerate much disturbance and gets cranky really quick. At the moment I do not dare to handle him, because I know that he will not tolerate it. He will bite me. I can understand that the snake at this stage is very afraid of me, and that this fear leads to the aggression he is displaying towards me, but I would like to know wether this behaviour is likely to stay or that the snake will become more calm eventually. My main question is: should I leave him alone for now and start handling him by the time he will be getting much calmer (say, in about 6 months or so; when he is 1 year old), or should I start handling him right now because otherwise chances are he will never tame? I am not sure what the best strategy is.

I have heard that hatchling O. porphyraceus spp. can be aggressive and I may sound like a big wuss, but so be it! I do not like to get bitten, even by a small snake. I automatically flinch everytime the snake strikes at me; I cannot help it. So do you people have any tips for this big wuss of a person who is a disgrace to the hobby?

Thank you.

Bert

Hi,

I have laticinctus and vaillanti and all specimens are very calm, even the younger ones of vaillanti. I really dont know what you must do but I think the best is to open their cage a few times in a week but dont handle them, they will get used that you open their box and after a while they will calm down and you can handle them.
Afterall, porphyraceus species are very sectrative by nature and the best is not disturb them if not neccesary. Offcourse I know you want to see them, but for them it is the best! Keep that in mind.

I wish you best luck with them!

Best regards,
Gidi

Thank you for your input, Gidi. I am aware of the shy and secretive nature of this species and I don't mind that. I have a male mandarin ratsnake (captive bred and born in '04) that I quite often do not get to see for weeks because he's hiding in the substrate. It's not that I want to handle my snakes every week or so, it's just that I like to handle them once in a while (say, once every 2 to 3 weeks) for just a couple of minutes so that I can admire their beauty from up close.

Judging on your and Kayvon's comment, I think that I will stick with my strategy to not handle the snake and to hope that he will become more calm when he ages.

Kind regards,

Bert

Bert,
You are a total disgrace to the reptile hobby. Just kidding. I have adult laticinctus that are as tame as any cornsnake. I have juveniles that I have not touched with success. As a matter of fact the last couple of times I tried to it went so bad I have sworn off touching them. I only clean the cage when they are in the hide boxes even. My adults were fairly psycho when they were small and just outgrew it one day. I hope for the same with my youngsters but won't be disappointed if they don't tame. I'm not much on walking around the house with a snake in my hands anyway.

Thank you for your answer, Kayvon. I prefer not to touch my snake at the moment, but sometimes I just have to gently move the snake out of his box, so that I can clean it. At the moment I am keeping him on toiletpaper as a substrate and he prefers to poop in his hidebox, wich is filled with moist sphagnum moss. I am by the way not the person to walk around the house with a snake in my hands, but I do however like to hold the snake once in a while (say, once every 2 to 3 weeks) so that I can appreciate it's beauty from up close.

Best regards,

Bert

I'm with you Bert. It can be a drag to have an amazingly beautiful animal and not get to really inspect it up close. When I hold my young female it is like trying to hold onto a fire hose with a few feet between me and the nossle. Not to mention the fact that my fire hose has teeth and is also spraying me with feces.

Mine are very good about not pooping in the hide box. I just change the moss when it starts to break down. They do however soil the water bowl more often than what randomly distributed crap would explain.

Good luck. Lats are my favorites right now.
Kayvon

I raised some coxi (heheh) and they were a handful. I sold them because I preferred not to deal with a snake that exciteable. Also, they are very dependent on high humidity, which is not good for the Great Southwest. They are a beautiful and fascinating snake otherwise.

I think they'll be very nervous when young whether you hold them or not. Biting doesn't bother me and they would bite me every time at first. Then they would stop. I actually think holding helps a little. But I would recommend some changes in husbandry. First I would put a large water jug in the tank because they like to soak and crapping in the water is easy to clean compared to cleaning a moist hide. It also helps with humidity. I would also suggest keeping them at cool temps, ranging from maybe 65-75*F, with bottom heat only for digestion.

Hope this helps a little.

TC

Thank you for your input, Terry! Actually, I already use a waterbowl that is large enough for the snake to soak in (I prefer to give all my snakes waterbowls large enough to soak in, even when they never do this), but the snake really seems to have a preference for the moist hidebox. I keep the snake at room temperature and I have no problems with the humidity. I get perfect sheds everytime.

I'm keeping the snake on toiletpaper because I've found out that a small plastic container is difficult to ventilate. At first I used a layer of humus as substrate, but I couldn't manage to get a good ventilation going. The result was fungus growing on the soil. However, eventually, I will be keeping the snake on a thick layer of humus, because I understand that this species likes to dig tunnels in it, just like my mandarin ratsnake wich spends most of it's time 'submerged' under the substrate.

Kind regards,

Bert

>>I'm keeping the snake on toiletpaper because I've found out that a small plastic container is difficult to ventilate. >>Bert

Bert, how big is the small plastic container? Thanks...

TC

Terry, the plastic container measures approximately 11.8" x 7.9" x 5.9" (wide x depth x height). I drilled 43 holes in the covering lid, covering the entire surface. I also drilled 2 rows of 5 holes in one of the long (11.8" sides, to get an air current going. Nevertheless, the remaining 3 sides and the covering lid always were covered by a layer of condensed water when I was using humus as a substrate.

Regards,

Bert

Thanks for the extra info, Bert. That should work. Good luck with those.

TC

>>Terry, the plastic container measures approximately 11.8" x 7.9" x 5.9" (wide x depth x height). I drilled 43 holes in the covering lid, covering the entire surface. I also drilled 2 rows of 5 holes in one of the long (11.8" sides, to get an air current going. Nevertheless, the remaining 3 sides and the covering lid always were covered by a layer of condensed water when I was using humus as a substrate.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Bert

Terry, I shall post a new and better picture of the snake once it has shed it's skin (he's entering a shedding cycle).

Regards,

Bert

Kayvon, may I ask how many specimens from ssp. laticinctus you have? I also have a male mandarin ratsnake (F2, CBB '04) from a lineage traceable to specimens collected in Northern Vietnam. If you're into stunningly beautiful (rat)snakes, you should definitely check this species out.

Regards,

Bert

Bert,
I have 2.2 latacincta. Also have 2.2 coxi and 3.3 mandarins. One of the male manderins is missing so I guess I have 2.3. I can't believe I didn't latch that cage!! I still have hopes of recovering that one. It is crazy cold in my basement just outside the snake room so I figure it may just be holed up for the winter.
Thats about it for asian ratsnakes other than the Kanasir Island rats.
Kayvon

That's a nice collection you have there, Kayvon! O. p. coxi is also on my wishlist, but unfortunately there's only one single bloodline of this subspecies in captivity. I hope that someday new bloodlines will become available (very unlikely to happen I reckon). Another species on my wishlist is O. moellendorffi. Last year was the first time I've seen captive bred hatchlings being offered here in Holland. However, I've heard that even CBB moellendorffi are difficult to get going. Apparently, many hatchlings do not make it past their first year.

Kind regards,

Bert

I have found that coxi babies are pretty calm initially but once they are feeding well they get defensive. they do calm down when they are adults though, or mine did. they will try to bite only if they think im food, and dont have the spastic defensive strikes they do when they are young when they sometimes throw their whole bodies into the air. ive found that even then, most are ok if i lift them with a small cage hook and lower them onto my hand. moving my free hand to the hooked snake though often elicits a strike.