Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone! I know this is a bit off topic from horned dragons, but I was wondering, as jobi at least seems to have experience with these lizards, if anyone could give me a couple of pointers on their care? There are a few juveniles at a store near me and I am really interested... Are they fairly close to the MHDs? Cage size? Humidity? Temps? all the good stuff. I have heard a couple people say they need really, really high humidity or they will not survive...? Any thoughts? Thanks!

Bob

Hi,

I do have a very healthy adult pair. Acclimatization of this species can take quite some time and most specimens come in dehydrated and with quite a parasite load.
Also they are wuite stress sensitive, so its not easy to get them up and running.
It has also to be noted that they do not tolerate calcium lactate well and thus one should give other calcium salts. Calcium carbonate and calcium citrate works well btw.
Fresh imports can be very shy and/or agressive (when cornered).
They in fact are semi aquatic. Mine do have a heated and planted 45g water tank in their enclosure. They jump in daily, drink from it and even catch guppies out of it.
Also the males favourite resting site is on a branch above the water surface and if disturbed, he jumps in and dives.
Once they survived deparasitation, are well rehydrated and eat well, they turn into active, beautiful and quite hardy lizards, which do need about the same space as basilisks do. I would consider a 400g tank to be the least.
If I find time, I may scan some of my colour slides or take a few digital pictures of the pair to post them here.

best regards

Ingo

I keep mine like CWD, they are much calmer and active in dim light, bright light seems to stress the hell out of them.

Thats true, but I have a but: If they have a large tank with dim and bright zones, you can also find them basking 10 cm apart from a 150 W metal halide. However, if the cage is small and they do not have the chance to avoid bright lights, they obviously suffer.

Ci@oIngo

Hello ingo!

I agree they must have a large cage.

I recently discovered that acanthosaura and gonocephalus have fluorescent properties the human eye cant see. The yellows and blues are reflected like neon light when the lizards evolve in dim light.

2 fighting males gonocephalus chameleontinus would immediately stop fighting when one is covered with sun tan lotion, the lotion keeps the colors from being reflected making the lizard less threatening.

This will open up an entire new can of worms in regards to there husbandry.

Hello Ingo:
It's been a long time. In answer to Bob's question, there are lots of people who have kept G. grandis but unfortunately success stories with this species are almost non-existent. These unique lizards come from humid jungles and are closely tied to water. Though they are no different than hundreds of other species (including the ever popular Chinese Water Dragon)in the way they live in the jungle they do not seem to be as adaptable.
These lizards are captured and brought back to city areas where the humidity is lower. They are then sent all over the world to city areas where the humidity is even lower. The importers get them, spray them down, give them a large water bowl, feed them, and there they sit until they sre sold.
My first exposure to this species was in 1986. I was at a huge Miami importers place and looking through their list. I spied "Great River Crested Dragon." Being a "Dragon" enthusiast I just had to check them out. I was directed to a cage where they would be be. Looking inside I saw the coolest looking lizard with a bizarre head crest that connected to a fin running the length of the dorsum. I was sold immediately. There was a male and two females in the cage. i chose a pair and left.
As soon as I got them home they were placed in a forest terrarium complete with large water dish, branches, and live plants. I even threw in a few crickets which they promptly went after. All was good.
It was only five days later when the female died. I was devastated and I couldn't helpbut think that there was something mysterious involved with her death. Within a couple days i noticed the male had lost what little color he had and became listless. If I didn't figure out something soon he would be dead as well.
On the other side of my reptile room I had set up an "aqua Terrarium using a large hex tank where I could keep frogs, fish, newts, and Anoles in a "naturalistic" environment. The middle was a land island with branches, rocks and live plants. In desperation I figured that being a jungle animal what could I lose. I placed the "Dragon" in the aqua terrarium which already had fish and a couple newts in it. The tank even had the glass lid on it with a light. I turned off the lights and went to bed,
When I woke up I turned the lights on and couldn't believe my eyes. Somebody had switched lizards (not really). The "dragon's" body was filled out, his eyes were bright, and his colors were unbelievable. The orange dots on the blue belly actually looked fluorescent, almost pulsating with a life of their own. I reached in to take him out to look at him and he lunged at my hand, his enlarged "fangs" clearly showing. Needless to say I left him alone. Now he was a "Dragon" worthy of legend, "The Creature from the Black Lagoon" in miniature complete with the crest running the length of the dorsum.
It was obvious that though I sprayed them and gave them a large dish the humidity levels were way to low in the terrarium. As I said in the beginning, these lizards are just not as adaptable as some other "Forest Dragons." I have been compiling lots of info on these animals and find them to be fascinating.
I have written this story before on kingsnake but it was several years ago and is now buried in the archives somewhere. I think that discussions of any of these Forest Dragons is appropriate on this forum as Acanthosaura and Gonocephalus are similar in many ways.
I hope this info helps.
Have a Great day!!!

Hi guys!
Thanks so much for your input. I really am grateful for it. At the moment, I have had the three of them for about 2 days. One is very colorful and the other two change from the beautiful colors to plain brown. I have the in a tank 30" long by about 16" high with tons of wood and plants. I am planning to put them into a tank that is 30" tall and about 16" wide and deep. They are just so small. They are maybe 2.5 -3" STV length. As of yet they haven't eaten but they seem very active and extremely fast and flighty (they bite unrestrainedly). I was lucky to not have to order them as I was able to pick out the ones that looked really good. Nice rounded thighs and tails etc. I was wondering, how does one tell the difference between the sexes? They all seem to be pretty colorful, but are way too young to have crests etc. I am really hoping that they aren't all males! None have bulges at the base of the tail like the MHDs, but as I said, are all very colorful.

What do you guys think about humidity? I know they need it really, really high, right now it is at 63% below the lamp, and about 84% in the rest of the cage. Sound good? Need more? Less?

Also, what have you guys had luck feeding them? I have heard that some of the gonocephalus species will consume fruit and greens? Any thoughts. Thanks for all the tips!

Best Regards,
Robert

Oh! I finally got a camera, would it help if there were pics of them? Thanks!

Bob

These are semi aquatic lizards, as all water loving species they spend some time every day in water, therefore air humidity can rang from 40% to 100%.

I don’t over do it with air moisture, all these lizards have a chance to dry regularly, they are submitted to a dry season followed by a monsoon season, I think the water content of preys and the regularity of feeding is far more important then spraying the hell out of them, its improbable they get any less then 70% water from insects, the rest they can easily obtain from an occasional drinking. Especially this specie as it usually defecate in water.

Sexing them at this size is quit easy, all you need to do is hold them side by side, visualise the head from above, male nostril are longer then the short blunt nose of females, I can sex mine from hatchlings.

As with all gonocephalus, these are display lizards that start going down hill when handled, they do fine and get real tame if you don’t try to handle them.

Ps. At this point in time, showing these rare lizards on the net may not be the best thing to do, peoples have the strange tendency to get new lizards on impulse, they see something new and immediately ask there local shops for some. My Indonesian friend has been trying to keep this specie alive for many years now, he actually sent 1000s on the Japanese market in hope someone will get there husbandry down so he can start a breeding colony at his farm. 7 years later I am the only one he knows who hatched a few clutches.

Once your successful in breeding them novelty plays in your favour, the less a specie is shown the more attractive it become when available, I sold some babies $500ea already.

To each his own, only you can be the judge, I only offer my opinion.

Rgds

Hello Bob & Jobi:
I see nothing wrong with showing pictures of your babies on this site. There are many people on here who may have never seen one of these lizards and i know they would be thrilled to see them. It's not like we're inventing the wheel or anything. These animals are available sporadically and are snapped up so quickly that one would think it to be a rare species. Unfortunately most do not thrive.
I do think it interesting that you were able to get juveniles. Chances are that they were probably from eggs laid in a dealers cage though it is possible someone bred them. It's just not a common thing because their care is so exacting in the first place. I hatched out two of them almost ten years ago and a friend of mine hatched a couple as well. I had a little trouble with the juvies at first. The same thing applies to them. I know lots of people that swear they can thrive in a standard forest set-up but I didn't find that to be the case. It was definitely the high humidity levels in the terrarium that made a difference. The trick is to keep the air humid but still have a dry basking site so their skin has a chance to dry out. If the babies don't feed this could very well be the problem. I have fed standard mealworms, young super worms, butterworms, and crickets to them. I've never tried fruits though it would not surprise me at all if they ate them. The one thing to remember is to keep the size of the food small since we're talking young lizards here. Use half grown crickets at best. They may also chase small fish in the water as well. Them acting aggressive towards you is a good sign.
I really hope these guys do well for you as they sre a really cool species. I hope lots of people tune into the info on this forum as it's probably the largest amount of info on captive G. grandis available. It would really be neat if others could add to the information pool as I think the secrets to success with Conocephalus are really just now being revealed.
There's quite a bit to learn about this unique genus of lizards and only by sharing both our successes and failures will future keepers gain from this knowledge.
I may be a lone wolf on the high humidity kick but it worked for me. In fact, one thing I forgot to mention, when the first male became healthy and filled out again (nearly four months later) I tried putting him back in a standard forest cage with sprayings and a large water bowl. Within two weeks he was going downhill so it was back to the humid house for him. That's why I'm sure it made the difference.
There are lots of other Forest Agamas from the same region and some of them thrive better even in lesser humid conditions. It may just be that these guys are more sensitive to it.
Good luck on your babies. I'd like to see pictures of them and I'm sure others would as well. I hope all the info Jobi and I have given you helps with your "Great River Crested Dragons." Keep us posted on how they do.

Hi everyone!
Thanks so much for the great tips! I am going to feed them later today, hopefully they will eat without problems. That will make me very happy!

The sexing info is great, thanks jobi! I will look at them after I get back, maybe tomorrow even. I don't want to hold them before they are fed.

I actually put them into the shower yesterday in a screen type of cage, just to let them get really wet and humid, also to help with getting them properly hydrated. As stressful or not as it may have been, they all colored up beautifully, and really seemed to enjoy it!

I do still have one question though... Is a long tank better than a tall one? Or it is the other way around? I have been reading posts about their need for humidity here, as well as elsewhere, and it seems that most people feel they need it really high. I don't think daily fluctuations in between mistings can be helped, so I think I have a little bit of both ideas there. I also have found, with many other species too, that a densely planted and arranged environment seems to help them feel secure and acclimate much better.

I think their tank is a little too small for three of them, but it may have to work for now. I may post pics of them, we'll see if I have time to! Won't be today, tomorrow maybe? I totally understand jobi's thinking about the impulse buying. That's usually how I get interested in a species. I see what I like, then I research the heck out of it, then go and buy it! Sort of what I did here! Well, thanks so much to all of you who responded, lots of good info for me to mull over! Thanks.

Regards,
Robert

This is how different both sex will look, easy to see.

Mine are kept in empty cages, a few branches and large water section, no plants or foliage, light intensity plays an important part in there stress level.

Intense color usually indicate high stress, these lizards display colors to impress rivals or signal females. Not sure about your shower experience, maybe its not that positive? As being totally stressed out will bring defensive coloration.

The only sure sing any lizards aren’t overly stressed is when they feed immediately after such a disturbance, if they don’t stop doing it.

sorry about the bad pic, its the only one I have on hand.

Hi jobi!
I think the shower was a positive thing... They seemed to go back to the normal, darker coloration almost immediately after being put into their tank. I just thought it was a good thing to do as it would make sure they were hydrated. You think it does more harm than good? well, I don't have to do it again.

I do like to put all my lizards outside in nice weather in screen cages and spray them with the hose. (Our hose has a misting attachment.) I do believe that this is a good thing to do, yes?

For the sexes, is the one on the left the male? I definitely have at least one with the snout like the one in the right picture. You'll have to forgive me, I'm not sure which is which! I will give mine a more thorough looking over later tonight when I get back. I can't now. I'm not kidding, it takes forever to catch them, they are sooo fast. They usually congratulate me by biting my fingers!

Thanks so much, I'll be in touch!

Bob

Hello bob:
There was nothing wrong with "showering" them. The real challenge is to see that the humidity levels in the habitat stay high. Then occasional showers should probably do the trick. I tried something a few years ago that worked pretty good. You may want to try it. I set a couple jugs on top of the cage with water in them. a couple holes punctured in the bottoms allowed the water to rain down into the terrarium. Being an aqua-terrarium the water just recycled into the water already in the tank thus the land area dried out quickly. This way you don't have to remove them from their terrarium. I always had an area where no rain fell to give the animals an option to get away from the water.
Hope all this info helps. I think between the three of us we've really started something which I'm sure will attract others interested in these "Dragons."
Have a Great day!!!

Hello!
Well, I dumped in about 20-25 crickets and it doesn't look like any of the lizards ate anything, at least yet... We'll see if they do. I'm really wondering if they wouldn't do better in the taller tank? I really want to do a palludarium (spelling might be funky on that) but I don't have the space/money right now. I have been racking my brain trying to figure out a way to move some things around and make a more "watery" environment for them. I have a friend who has a plexiglass hex tank which would work, but it is soooo much money as he is only willing to sell it set up as a saltwater aquarium. I don't want $150 worth of coral! Is a longer tank better than a tall tank? Well, I will post pics tomorrow, possibly, and we'll go from there! Thanks a bunch.

Bob

Bob Iv been keeping reptiles none stop 30 years, to be honest its only the 5 past years that really matters, the rest of my past husbandry is obsolete, thank goodness I haven’t written any books back in the days.

Modern herpetoculture should be based on feeding first and foremost, this is the no;1 goal we must focus on as keepers.

I start with a bare naked cage to witch I ad or subtract until I get my lizards to perform.
First determine the nature of your lizards, in your case (highly aquatic) Ingo suggested 45g water section filtered and heated, I totally agree with him, furthermore you should have control over the waters temperature from 78f to 88f, this range is easy to achieve when you have mass (volume) to play with, I learned this from working with turtles, a low wattage reflector and bulb over a shallow water area will create a hot bath often favoured as stimulate the metabolism, many keepers fail to provide temperature gradients in the water section.

As Ingo suggested branches overhanging water will be readily used, provide enough options for all 3 lizards, they will favour such branches over any other branches. Mine will drop and hide under cork, this shelter keeps them from farther panicking.

Now that you’ve got the water and branches right, you need to provide heat options, forget about bright lights with these lizards, I get much better results using 3 or 4 regular red 25w incandescent bulbs, use reflectors to direct heat over parts of the favourite branches.

I rather use a few well placed 25w bulbs in a 6 to 8 feet cage then one 100w or worst a 150w bulb, low wattage bulbs don’t dehydrate your lizards cage, having a few will allow all lizards to benefit from the heat when needed, it will also avoid domination over resources.

I use sphagnum moss over my land area, dirt or leaf litter works good, sometimes I even use hard wood chips.

In such a set up! Theirs no reason for a lizard to refuse food, at least no physiological reasons. Usually they will start feeding ASAP in the right environment, that is if you don’t stress them with any type of manipulation, this is what I meant when I said, if they don’t feed right after you disturb them, this means they are stressed out, stress is the invisible killer, 100,000s imports die from stress every year, that’s every single year of my 30 years of herping, and I am being conservative. Now you understand what I mean when I don’t display new unknown reptiles to the public? Most keepers can’t acclimate the common and easy to keep species, gonocephalus sp simply don’t stand a chance in hell.

My gonos and acanthosaura’s all have aces to day temps from 75f to 130f basking (yes a 25w bulb @ 8in = 130f), and they use these temps regularly, if lizards aren’t allowed to heat, there metabolism shuts down and they stop feeding, again feeding dictates all aspects of husbandry. My temps goes down to 75f at night but my water stays at 80f allowing my lizards the option to use this heat source while sleeping.

I absolutely never spray, I simply don’t see a need for this, lizards do stress when they see a large predator pointing something at them that throws water, its far more effective to have some sort of water movement, the lizards will use it on there own terms.

Theirs absolutely no reasons to disturb new imports, when set up in the right conditions, they will start performing if left alone, any disturbance will cause lactic acid build ups that are very long to process by the very small muscles of these tree lizards, being sedentary only adds to the problem.

rgds

Hello bob:
How big are the crickets you are offering them? For juvie gono's they should be no larger than half size and one quarter grown would be even better. You can offer them small standard mealworms or better yet young superworms which both have less chitin than crickets. Many times these lizards feed on bizarre things in the wild and it takes a little time to figure out just what it is they want. Though I've never tried this on them my Acanthosaura feed readily on earthworms. you can chop up worms or get younger worms for the baby Gono's and they might go nuts over them. I also think that if they are possibly stressed at all there is a way to minimize that condition and still be able to observe them. You can cover the cage with newspaper so they can't see out of the cage. This will then turn their terrarium into a miniature forest with a sight barrier. They'll go about their daily routines without worrying about you. Leave some strategic cutouts in the paper so you can monitor their activity. Keep Notes! This is something that zoos around the world do for picky animals so it's nothing new to suggest this.
By the way I didn't tell you how to offer the worms/mealworms. I set up small shallow dishes because the first thing grubs and worms do when they hit the ground is burrow. By using the dish the worms remain out in the open for the animals to eat. You can strategically place a couple dishes in different parts of the cage like in the open or under dense cover. Then you can see which areas they prefer to get their food from.
I still say posting some pics of at least your setup will be a big help. We could all look at it and make suggestions. It might even be perfect the way it is.
When I think back on what I've written so far i never mentioned temps because that was covered by others. Mine were kept in the high eighties to mid nineties during the day with drops into the high seventies low eighties at night. Typically a ten degree difference.
If humidity levels are up you don't have to spray them as often (as Jobi suggested). I just think the more natural the setup at the beginning the better but everyone has preferences. It just seems to work better in the case of Tropical "Dragons." By adding lots of "cage furniture" you literally create lots of exploration space in a relatively small area.
One last thing (I hate to be so long-winded but I really like these animals and I'm determined that we'll get yours up and running), When I raised some Flying Dragons (genus Draco) I found that they really liked Leaf hoppers which were collected by "grass sweeping." We call food animals collected this way as "meadow plankton." You might want to give it a whirl. You may be surprised by the results. Just don't collect wgere there is heavy spraying like school fields, ball fields, or golf courses.
I hope this info helps. As usual, keep us posted.
Have a Great Day!!!

I love it when peoples share there experience with such generosity, it make every one think, and this is good.
Thank you.

Hello Jobi:
I couldn't agree with you more. I've been associated with this site since 1999 and during much of that time things were kind of dead around here. Now the forum is alive and we're sharing some of the best information on "Forest dragons" that one can find. Like you I have thirty plus years experience keeping and breeding reptiles and amphibians. I've even been involved in environmental education programs. I enjoy helping others that are either new or are trying to find out information on particular species. I would like to see the day that success stories concerning these animals are everyday occurrences. It won't be tomorrow and we still have lots to learn but by sharing our experiences we help others get a huge jump start that we didn't have. Hell, I'm learning from other experiences on here as well.
Have a Great Day!!!

Hello! Sorry it has taken me forever to post you both back. Busy busy busy... I finally have pics of all three of them, and their tank. I don't think I can post all of them here, so I will make a few posts.

This is in my bathroom after a "shower session" that is why my hand, and the lizards are all wet. It didn't appear that they ate at all, or at least many of the crickets I put in the tank. Spawn, I believe you asked what size? They are what is classified as "small" from the pet store. About 1/4 of an inch long or so. Right now, as I just re-did their tank a little (Jobi, I found sphagnum moss at Lowes, go figure!!! I was actually very excited and did a covering of sphagnum over about 1 1/2 inches of sphagnum peat and coconut fiber and this mulch-like stuff.

I should say that I have a heating pad over the huge water bowl, a 50 watt heat lamp, and a UVB bulb. The temp on the warm side is 82-88F and the humidity is about 45% on the hot side and about 70% on the cooler side.

Right now one is soaking in the water bowl, one is basking, and one is staring out at me... I really hope you guys like the pics, these guys are crazy to photograph! They shot all over the bathroom! (And bit me repeatedly...) These are way crazier than any of the acanthosauras I have! Remind me of tokay geckos!

Here we go... This is the first one. Head shot and full body shot. Hopefully you are able to tell gender through my crappy picture!

Here is the second one... also a fully body and head shot.

And the last one...

Here are the last ones. the head shot is of the last lizard.

Hello Bob:
They look phenomonal. Just like the couple I raised up. The biting, attacking behaviour is just so typical of the species it's kind of funny. By the pics they look very good so at least you have something to work with. All too often people start with animals in a down condition.
Now to get these guys eating regularly. They are a little bigger than I thought they were (that's why pics are important) and though they should chase the small crickets fine you might want to just put a couple three quater grown ones in there for them. Not a lot, maybe a half dozen at most.
Definitely try the bowls of meal worms. They should snap them up readily. And...just for an experiment why don't you try a small dish of finely chopped fruit (bright colors, maybe strawberry) garnished with some mealworms for movement. We may see that they'll take to it readily.
I'll rack my brain to see what I may be forgetting to tell you. I'm sure Jobi will be able to add something to this list. One of these days I'll get around to writing a care booklet on "Tree Dragons." I have lots of info, I just need the pics.
Good Luck and keep us posted. Though everything (cage included) looks fine, I won't feel secure until I hear from you that you've seen them eat. After setting up the feeder stations you may want to cover the cage partially and let them be for a day or two, monitoring them from peek holes. They look good, they should feed readily.
Take care and Have a Great Day!!!
P. S. Throw a few small feeder fish in the water. They may go after them.
Good Luck!!!

If they do not eat, definitely try Guppies and also Butterworms and nightcrawlers of apt size. These are the favourites of my grandis.
Also check if overall brightness in the tank may be too high. Also they may eat better, if seperated.
I keep my fingers cross, at least they do not look too bad.
Not easy to tell at that age, but I may guess, you have 2,1 from your pics.
I have uploaded a few pics of my pair, one of which may also give you an impression on enclosure size.
Enjoy!

best regards

Ingo

..which shows relative size of both genders

Hey where can i find breeaders for Crested River Dragons (Gonocephalus Grandis)
I am looking for baby Crested River Dragons, or baby Chinese Water Dragons. If you hve any info please contact me. I am also planning on giving my cross-breed snake away to a good home. You must have the cage and demonstrate some education behind larger snakes. The snake is about nine feet long. This reptaile is a Cross breed between an australian carpet snake and a python. please call me about my snake or about the baby Crested River Dragons (Gonocephalus Grandis) or a baby chinese wated dragon.

626 475 4200 is my cell phone. Jared

Hey where can i find breeaders for Crested River Dragons (Gonocephalus Grandis)
I am looking for baby Crested River Dragons, or baby Chinese Water Dragons. If you hve any info please contact me. I am also planning on giving my cross-breed snake away to a good home. You must have the cage and demonstrate some education behind larger snakes. The snake is about nine feet long. This reptaile is a Cross breed between an australian carpet snake and a python. please call me about my snake or about the baby Crested River Dragons (Gonocephalus Grandis) or a baby chinese wated dragon.

Hi,

your tank looks nice, but its not optimized for this species. Maybe thats why they do not eat.
They need a tall setup. About at least 3 ft for juvies, because they sit mosdt of teh time in a vertically orientated position. For that they also need lots of branches of about the thickness of their body.
Also I think, that water bassin is way too small. Its better to have sth in, which allows them to dive.

Best regards

Ingo

This may give you an impression of a tank for adults. Thats, where my grandis live in.

Ci@o

Ingo

These photos seem to show animals of same sex, look at eye color and see if all are the same? Males have darker eyes at any age.

You need to get them feeding ASAP!

I would set them up individually in bare naked cages (Rubbermaid tubs) an inch of sphagnum and the largest water bowl possible with a single diagonal branch, use a 60w red bulb with reflector, set this bulb on a dimmer switch, this will allow you to raise heat until your lizards start feeding, from there on you will know what husbandry works for them, this gained knowledge will help you set your definite tank.
Try worms, mealworms, feeder fish, roaches, crickets, katydids, grass hoppers, frogs.
These are all foods my gonos eat, I haven’t see any gono refuse mealworms in a bowl, particle as you can count them easy.

The above is exactly how I got mine started, once they started feeding well and regularly the rest is easy.

Theirs a general idea most keepers have embraced, they build a habitat in hope the lizards will perform in that habitat, in reality we should focus on the lizards performance and then build the habitat around it. its far easier to control habitat when you add then when you subtract.

When you start with a basic set up, you have control over temps and hydration, this allows feeding, once feeding is regular and your lizards are performing adding to your set up will be easy, if you add anything that leads to poor feeding you can back track and try different. Eventually you get there husbandry fine tuned (mastered) and build that amazing display you dream about.
Rgds

Hello guys!
Thanks for the responses, I wasn't expecting them tonight! First let me say that, since out of the shower and back in the slightly improved tank, they are all brilliantly colored and seem fairly calm and "relaxed." Not in a bad, stressed seeming way, just that they are in different places when I check on them and they have visited the H2O bowl and are perched on various places, really makes me happy to see. I will DEFINITELY try the worms. I tried small earthworms which they didn't go for, though that was the first night so they probably wouldn't have taken anything.

Jobi, that is a wonderful piece of advice about the back tracking with husbandry. In all the years I have been keeping herps, that never really occurred to me with lizards before. Duh! Frogs yes, in a slightly different way... but it was really one of those "the lights are on but no one is home" kind of moments . If they continue to refuse food, I will do that. Though, if they keep their color like the way they are now, and seem to settle down a bit (ad of course eat), I may not need to. I really don't mean to ignore any of your advice, I am just going to wait and see if it will even be necessary. I will check them tomorrow for eye color, I don't want to stress them more tonight. From the snouts, any thoughts on sex?

Spawn, I don't mean to go out on a limb here, but are you by any chance "Murdock" on the Repticzone forum? I would be willing to bet you are... I post occasionally there, not too much, more a "ghoster" there. I don't really have time. People talk about having a zoo, I would bet that between you me and jobi we could open a whole theme park! Thanks so much for the meal worm tip, I will pick some up tomorrow. I cannot tell you how happy I would be if they ate for me!!! I am really glad you thought they looked good. I really was lucky to stumble across them at a herp store, they really looked good, so I thought I'd give it a go! As with all these tree agamids, it seems that pics don't really do any justice to their color. All of them right now are gorgeous! Hopefully they stay that way.

As stressful or not as it may be, I really think the shower trick is worthwhile! They all seem so content. I know that may sound a little weird to say, but they just seem to be in nice spots, one is basking, the other is resting on the leaves, and the last is sitting on the rim of the H2O bowl. Really makes me happy to see what I think are healthy animals. They aren't quite as pretty as the Acanthosaura armata yet, but they sure close to it! I really, really hope they do well for me. I am looking in to getting a bigger tank. Especially if they don't eat the worms, I have a gut feeling (aided of course by the input of you and jobi) that they would probably eat in a more spacious environment.

Well guys, thanks so much for all your great tips. As always, I cannot express my gratitude. I will of course keep you posted and let you know if they go for the worms tomorrow. If they seem to flighty tomorrow to eat the worms, I will cover the tank, as suggested, and check through a peephole. Thanks again for all the help you two have given me. Especially as back up ideas, and as background tips. Take care, and I'll TTYL!

Regards,
Bob

Hello Bob, Jobi, Ingo:
Yes, I am Murdock. I tried the Spawn name there and it got kicked back. Oh Well. Ingo, I'm glad you shared those picks of your gono cage. It's a great set up. The way it is built surely holds the humidity which I think is key to success with these guys. I have seen other set ups of yours during past conversations and I always enjoy them.
Jobi brings up a point that though it is not my first choice for housing does have one advantage; the food cannot help but be seen by the animal. When I first got my flying Dragons (genus Draco)I put them in an opaque sweater box tilted up at one end (just slightly). The reason i did that was they looked real dehydrated and somewhat litless. i sprayed them and they went to town drinking water. In fact, to this day I don't think i've ever seen more consistently thirsty lizards. After they drank for nearly a half an hour I threw week old crickets in with them and they went crazy, snapping them up. After that I put them in their permanent terrariums and had very few problems with them so it may work if you can't get them to eat. I think they'll eat very soon and once they start they'll take off. As usual keep us posted.
Everybody Have a Great Day!!!

Hello guys,
Sorry, I have been very busy. But isn't that always the excuse? Anyway, the pet store I get my feeder sat was out of worms, or course, when I needed them, so I offered small earthworms in place of them. No luck. Then a put several, slightly larger, crickets into the cage. It looks like, from their bellies, that they ate some at least... I really hope so at least. I am looking into getting a 29 tall tank. 18" tall instead of 12". I am thinking of siliconing off 1/3 of the bottom and installing a small waterfall in the water "pond" they would have, also considering a fogger. Any thoughts? Well, I will keep y'all posted as to the goings on, and until then... Thanks everyone. And ingo, I have never seen a more beautiful enclosure set up, ever. Period. What you have is truly amazing.

Bob

Bob your going at this the wrong way, start simple get them to feed individually, then work your way to a larger communal cage.

these may or may not work together, usually lizards that do will bask together or sleep together, if not then be attentive, not because you don’t see them fight means they don’t, and even if they don’t fight intimidation is enough to stress them out of feeding.

You wont have many attempts at getting this right before they start going down hill, right now the priority is to get them feeding willingly.

Only when a lizard is doing well alone will I introduce it to an other, if he stops feeding for any prolonged time, I will separate him before he starts failing.

At this point in time your lizards are failing, they should be motivated feeding machines.
rgds

Hi Bob and Jobi:
For lizards in such good health not to be tearing away at any food offered as soon as it hits the tank there has to be a reason. Jobi has a good idea. Just separate them for now to see if that might not help. Jobi has a point and I think you should try it. Though most agamas will feed regardless of others being present doesn't mean that this group isn't intimidating each other by sight. You can even go a step farther and create a sight barrier as well so they can't see each other at all. This is done quite frequently by people that keep and raise Chameleons.
Once they are feeding you can try placing them together but be prepared in case they need to be separated again.
Good Luck and as usual, keep us posted.
Have a Great Day!!!

Hello!
I have some good news, the lizards are eating! As of now it's been medium crickets, small mealworms, and baby guppies. I am thrilled! They seem to be doing very well, knock on wood. All of them look nice and healthy still, flighty as all get out, and oh so testy! Thanks to both of you for all your input! It's is probably due to you guys that they're even still here! I will keep you all posted, and maybe even post a few more pics of them in their cage or something. Thanks again!

Bob

Hello Bob:
I'm so glad to hear that they are doing so well. As they settle in you're really going to enjoy them. They will always be cantankerous (?) but that's just part of their eternal charm.
Enjoy them and Have a Great Day!!!

Hi there!
Yeah, I am really thrilled that they came around like they did. I am really lucky to have been able to hand pick out the ones I wanted. There is at least one left at the store, depending on it's gender I might go for it too! Well, thanks to both of you, I really appreciated the help!

Bob