Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am long-time snake guy, interested in doing a back yard habitat for tortoises and have read up on Russians. Cost, size, personality, ease, etc. have led me to this species. I like the idea of doing outdoor hibernation. I live in Tyler, TX and temps in the Winter usually are 40s-60s in day and high 30s to low 50s night, with only about a dozen sub freezing days. If I can keep the enclosure dry in winter, I think this is a reasonable option. Can anyone troubleshoot/play devil's advocate for this plan for me. I have read up and appreciate that one has less control and monitoring ability with a set up like this. Other thoughts? Thanks in advance. Mike

That should be a good climate. It does get colder in their native areas. You did hit on this a little but 2 things in regards to your climate that will be very, very important:

1.) To keep them dry and
2.) To keep them at a pretty constant temp of 45-50 durring the winter.

It is a little hard to do both because they will probably get the right temps by letting them burrow below ground but then you may run into the moisture problem. It is easier to keep them dry above ground inside a tortiose house but then the temps might vary and range from 30-60 often, perhaps daily.

Another note is that I have had them dig down into the ground in the fall to brumate and then in spring came up outside the pen walls! The walls were sunk 6 inches in hard Arizona soil (definitely not deep enough). Point is, these tortoises really burrow! To brumate, Russians don't really dig a den. They burry themselves deep in the ground and when it warms up they just dig up, not always following that same way back out of the ground! Make you pen large enough so that they will be at ease. At least 8X8 or larger. Make the walls at least 1 foot deep.

If you can build a small-insulated tortoise house inside the pen in an area that is shaded most of the winter, you may be able to keep the temp pretty constant at around 50-40 through the winter. Fill it with straw and keep it dark. In the coldest months close it up so the torts stay inside. Then open it up once the high temps outside get over 70. Other paople may have some ideas about this. Just make sure that your tortoise house is comforting so they can relax and brumate. You don't want them to try to incessantly get out because they are dissatified with the house's conditions.

I am planning on building a new outdoos russian pen and these ideas have come from that process. Many people keep russians outside then brumate them in a refridgerator durring the winter because it is much easier to keep them at the right conditions for three months there than it would be if the tortoises stayed outside.

Needless to say it is a topic of interest for me and I would be very curious to here other keepers' outdoor stragities, problems, ideas and successes with russian tortoises.

Greg

I really appreciate your reply.

I think I will use some sort of tarp set up over the pen to keep the water out, but still allow easy visual inspection during winter.

I will definitely dig a deep barrier.

I think I will have to trust nature when it comes to the temperature issues and hope that burrow temps are as consistent as they should be.

Thanks for your help.

Mike Austin

I guess as a follow-up thought, I appreciate the refrigerator issue allows for more constant conditions... I don't know why I have something in me that doesn't want to go that route. Will continue to think about that.

The outdoor house concerns me because there will be spurts of time in winter here where things will heat up a bit and I am concerned they would come out of hibernation prematurely only to be hit with a cold spurt while in a somewhat less healthy / more vulnerable condition. Thats where I was thinking that the natural approach with a burrow would moderate some of those temperature fluctuations.

Thanks again.

Mike

It is true that the temp underground will be more consistant throughout the winter. Your tarp idea may work to keep it dry too. Good ideas-

Greg

I used to breed Russians up until recently (my growing sulcata herd simply edged them out of the limited space in my yard, so I traded the breeders), and I can tell you that having tried both methods, I go the refrigeration route every time. Yes, the initial cost of the fridge can be considerable, especially if you are hibernating several animals, but this will last for a considerable time. Animals hibernated in such a fashion emerge from hibernation with fewer problems and are generally ready to eat upon establishing a proper body temperature. Most of the animals I hibernated outside required at least two to three day's hydration before eating. Also, regardless of my attempts to hide them, most of the animals would emerge on sunny days and not return to their burrows on their own accord. One particularly stubborn male consistently emerged from his burrow anytime the sun shined, even when the temperature was in the fifties. One morning, I was shocked to find that he had actually moved to a corner of the pen after I had placed him in the burrow for the night, meaning that he'd sat out for close to nine hours in thirty five degree weather. Needless to say, I couldn't get him to eat for one week following hibernation.

I've also noticed that animals hibernated in the fridge tend to be more breeder ready when brought out of hibernation, and males will start after females within a week of emergence, as opposed to the typical month I've noticed with the outdoor lot.

Besides all of this, flash floods are a serious problem here in San Antonio, and I would sooner trust a down and out meth addict than the weather here in south Texas. Tarp or not, mother nature will find a way to water the ground.

Despite all of this, however, I've never lived in Tyler. I'm sure it must be drier than San Antonio, but other than that, I couldn't give any definitive answers. My advice is to try both. You won't kill your tortoises by keeping them out. You just might find it more convenient and worry-free to keep them in a fridge with a min/max digital thermometer, is all.

T.G.

The more I think and hear about refrigeration hibernation the more convinced I am it's the way to go. Seems to take all the variables out of the equation and makes it easier to manage. No doubt that the breeding season can be controled having all the animals exposed to the exact same temperature cycling, cool down and warm up. When mine were outdoors last year for a winter I became concerned when one of them awoke in the spring w/ what looked like scale rot. With this method I could pay much closer attention to the health of my coloney because I'd have access indoors.

A couple questions though...

-Did you worry about the refrigeration drying out the air too much and in turn dehydration the tortoises?
-How did you nest them in the refrigerator?
-How slowly did you bring their temp down to cool and back up wram?

Thanks T.G.

Greg

I have never had dryness as an issue, but the hibernation medium I use is very specific. First off, when you set up your fridge, do it in a place that has relative temperature stabilization. i use my garage, which is insulated, so the temperature dips between forty five and sixty five degrees farenheit, and the fridge dips between fifty and forty at the most, usually settling in the forty four to forty seven range.

I put the tortoises in rubbermaid containers with holes drilled in the tops. The containers are twice as wide, long, and deep as the tortoise is long (this is approximate; little less, little more can't hurt). I use untreated peat moss mixed with sphagum moss as the substrate. I don't use sand or regular dirt, as this seems to act as a dehydrator in my experience. Plus, it cakes around the eyes of the animals during sleep and causes other problems. Peat moss is definitely the base, and sphagum sits on top.

I've never usually found dehydration problems with this arrangement, and I've only seen an animal void urine once during a hibernation sequence, and it was after the fridge had failed in a blackout that lasted three hours. This happens sometimes. Something I did to remedy this was soak the animal in cold water in the fifties. If thirsty, the animal will drink. After this, throughly dry the animal and return it to hibernation. Like I said, I've never had this problem but once, so don't anticipate it being a big obstacle.

Another important item to purchase is a scale. Depending on the type of scale, you can weigh the tortoises without removing them from the sweaterbox. All you need to do is calculate the weight of the box and materials sans tortoise, and substract the difference. If you notice the tortoise starting to lose more than fifteen to twenty percent of its bodyweight, you should bring him/her out of hibernation. The goal is to lose less than ten percent. In some cases, I've had animals lose next to nothing. Also, inspect the animal regularly, to see if he/she is drying out too much or developing any problems.

When I put the animal to sleep, I set them in a barren patch in my yard where they cannot graze (you can also bring them indoors, but this is not usually necessary if weather permits; what you don't want is them going into natural hibernation). I keep them there for two to three weeks, offering water every two to three days in the form of a warm soak, bringing them inside should the temperature fall below fifty. This usually causes them to void all gut contents rather quickly and assuredly. Once you pass the two week mark, wait for a night that drops into the fifties. Keep your guys outside on this night, and around one or two in the morning, transport them to the sweaterboxes that have been sitting in the fridge, then transport the sweaterboxes to their spot in the fridge. Run thermometer probes to the inside of the fridge and make sure the temperature is set before placing the torts in the hibernarium. Set the temperature for forty five, as warmer often keeps the torts in a state of limbo. These guys have antifreeze in their blood. It can drop to the mid thirties without problems, though this should not continue on a constant basis. Make sure to briefly open the fridge door every day to ensure proper air circulation.

When you bring them up, do it in much the same way as you would putting them down. Pick a night when the sun will be shining in the morning but the night is still in the fifties. Remove the tortoises from the sweaterboxes and place them in a shelter with the hibernation media covering them. The next morning, these guys should emerge quite naturally. If they do not, give them 'till the afternoon, then remove them to a sunny location. Most of these guys tend to start eating by the days end, some of them by the next day. Just make sure that the weather is reasonably sunny for at least two days before bringing them out. You wouldn't want to do this during spring rains, for example. Some people I know bring their guys out of hibernation indoors, but I believe that exposure to the sun causes as of yet unknown chemical reactions that trigger a healthier return to the warm world. Once out, make sure to soak the animals every day. Should you notice any problems, take the animal to a vet for diagnosis. Never hibernate animals you know to be sick. Never hibernate hatchlings; there is just too much risk involved, given their small size. Overwinter them until their third year is my general advice. I usually hibernate the animals around Thanksgiving and bring them out around Valentines Day, giving them three to four solid months of hibernation. This is nice, as the holidays are not filled with worries over tortoises getting too cold. Though I don't generally find this to be the case, other species (such as Testudo graeca) tend to become restless toward the end of their hibernation period. If an animal becomes restless and you notice a great deal of disturbance in the medium, bring the animal out of hibernation before too long. Energy is precious, and you don't want the animal to start losing weight.

T.G.