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Lavender Albino Banana Cal Kings

Jeremy Pierce May 12, 2007 08:06 AM

Hello everyone. I am Pituophis junkie recently getting into california kings. I really love the variety of colors and patterns. I picked up a couple of females at a show this past weekend. They are lavender albino banana cal's. One is abberant and one striped. They are truly stunning. The colors are way more intense than your typical albino. Does anyone know the background on this morph? I saw some on VMS's website but they are no longer working with them. Any info is appreciated. Thank you and take care!

Jeremy
Shade Tree Exotics
Shade Tree Exotics

Replies (16)

Jeremy Pierce May 12, 2007 08:09 AM

the striped female and clutch mate to the abberant.
Shade Tree Exotics
Shade Tree Exotics

Kerby... May 12, 2007 08:44 AM

At least they don't appear to be by the pictures...and I know it is hard to take a picture and represent what the snake really looks like.

First of all they aren't Lavender Albinos - that is TWO discriptions for TWO different snakes. You can have either an Albino or you can have a Lavender...but not a Lavender Albino; unless that snake is displaying both Albino and Lavender at the same time..then that term would be correct.

Lavenders have a DARK red/blue eye and Albinos have red eyes.

Here is a pic of 2 babies, an obvious Lavender and an obvious Albino. As babies they are EASY to distinguish..but as adults the body color can wash out and some old Lavenders will look just like Albinos..EXCEPT their eye color will give them away.

So you have what appears to be Albinos.

Kerby...
Image
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Lonesome Valley Reptiles
www.lonesomevalleyreptiles.com
Specializing In California Kingsnakes

Bluerosy May 12, 2007 09:35 AM

Kerby,

I have always heard the distictinction for lavenders to be "lavender albino" (= T positive) and albino as T negative.

It may be that everyone is wrong here so chalk it up to another mislabling for morphs. WHat does Bechtels book say?
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I still don't need no spell chack.

Kerby... May 12, 2007 09:43 AM

Not everyone calls them Lavender Albinos, most IMO call them just Lavenders, at shows, etc..

And of course there are a lot of Lavenders LOL

Kerby...
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Lonesome Valley Reptiles
www.lonesomevalleyreptiles.com
Specializing In California Kingsnakes

Jeremy Pierce May 12, 2007 10:06 AM

It is my understanding that this is a combination of the Lavender and albino banana. VMS has pics of some adults on their website. I have seen many lavender cals so I do understand what you are saying. I have seen them on one other website but I can't recall who it was. Here is a link to the pic.

http://www.vmsherp.com/ImagePages/Past/CalLavAlbinoBanana.htm

Thanks and take care!

Jeremy

Kerby... May 12, 2007 03:31 PM

Your pictures have red eyes.

Hence dark eyes = Lavender
Red eyes = Albino

Now last year I bred double hets (Albino & Lavender) together in three different clutches, producing both Lavenders and Albinos in all three clutches...but to my knowledge I did not produce a cal king that was displaying both Albino and Lavender at the same time.

Kerby...
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Lonesome Valley Reptiles
www.lonesomevalleyreptiles.com
Specializing In California Kingsnakes

Jeremy Pierce May 12, 2007 03:40 PM

Excellent info. That was what I was looking for. Someone that had done some test breeding and had some data. Thank you very much Kerby! It doesn't matter to me what they are. I am perfectly happy with them being very good looking albinos! Once again thank you for your time and knowledge. Take care!

Jeremy

FunkyRes May 13, 2007 12:47 PM

What I have seen is a lot of people refer to lavenders as lavender albino and amels as amel albino. I guess the T neg vs T pos thing.
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3.6 L. getula californiae - 5 eggs (Cal. King)
1.1 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
1.0 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
3.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

zach_whitman May 12, 2007 12:01 PM

First of all I would like to say that those are some stunning cal kings, so whatever you want to call them, nice find.

Second, if you are just getting into cal kings you will rapidly find out about all of the different horrible naming that goes on. This has been a recent topic of conversation on here. See the posts a few down and a few up from this one.

Third, Kerby is right, albino and lavender are two separate traits. Now, like bluerosy said, some people argue that it is like other T vs T- and there are regular albinos vs lavendar albinos. However I think that this is extremely confusing because a snake can be both at the same time (they are two different traits) although I don't know how you could tell if a snake was both, it is possible. If a lavender is called a lavender albino then what do you call the snakes who are actually both?

To compound this, people who have darker colored albinos frequently just throw on the word lavender, because, well the color is kinda lavender. But this is not the mutation.

Personally I would just use the word lavender not lavender albino.

Lastly, I would call your snakes high yellow, not bananas. See my post above for more on this.

Jeremy Pierce May 12, 2007 12:41 PM

Thanks Zach! I don't disagree with you that they shouldn't be called banana's. High yellow is a more fitting term. I am pretty sure that they are both lavender and albino. I guess I'll just have to get me a lavender now to breed it to and find out exactly whats going on. Damn, I hate it when I have to get more snakes LOL!!! Thanks for the info. Take care!

Jeremy
p.s. pictured is my albino banana (I think this one qualifies as banana)
Image

zach_whitman May 12, 2007 12:47 PM

Thats a beauty, where did she come from?

Jeremy Pierce May 12, 2007 02:03 PM

I got her from Tim Emerson in Lawrence, Ks. She is super clean! Thanks Zach and take care!

Jeremy

Kerby... May 12, 2007 03:36 PM

**I guess I'll just have to get me a lavender now to breed it to and find out exactly whats going on.**

Although that sounds logical, remember that there are double hets out there (albino & lavender), and there are Lavenders het for Albino, and there are Albinos het for Lavender. I know because I have sold quite a few of them, some were wholesaled...so no telling where they ended up.

Kerby...
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Lonesome Valley Reptiles
www.lonesomevalleyreptiles.com
Specializing In California Kingsnakes

Bluerosy May 12, 2007 05:04 PM

Wouldn't the correct term be T negative (red eye albino) and T positive (dark eye albino) instead of this lavender and albino. I mean the correct term is amelanism/ amelanistic anyway.

I think where most people get confused here and at shows is with the eyes anyway. If its got red eyes its a T negative. If not then its got extra melanin and is something else.

Naming these undiscoverable traits have not even been invented yet.
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I still don't need no spell chack.

zach_whitman May 12, 2007 05:16 PM

I don't know that the lavender/albino difference has anything to do with the tyrosinase enzyme.

The multistep reactions by which melanin is made is far more complicated than that. Frequently people just assume that a darker form of albino (as seen in blood pythons, corn snakes, ect) is a T plus. In fact to my knowledge boas are the only snake that I know for a fact had tissue samples analyzed to figure out the whole T / T- thing.

I would be hesitant to call this mutation a T anything.

Bluerosy May 12, 2007 05:36 PM

are you referring to the T positive argentine boa?
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I still don't need no spell chack.

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