Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey everyone,

Well this is the first time I have been on this section of the forum, I am normally on the Tree Frog one. I have finally decided to go from tree frogs only, to dart frogs as well.

The tank I am currently building is a 90 gallon with automated water circulation, misting, fogging, and air circulation. I wanted to have a good number of darts to occupy the sizable space and had some in mind when I started.

Now, I didn't realize until recently that the D. azureus were territorial. I have read many places not to keep more than 2 together or they will cause stress and lead to a death of a frog. So my questions will be this to help me decide on the frogs that will occupy the tanks:

1. Is it possible to have more than 2 D. azureus in a 90 gallon tank? I am asking of personal experience on the question, not what you read someone else write.

2. If it is not possible to have more than 2 D. azureus, would adding another species like D. auratus or D. leucomelas be acceptable. I have read on reputable sites that this could work.

3. If neither of those two options is possible in a 90 gallon tanks. What about mixing just the different D. auratus (green and blue). I understand many people don't want the interbreeding to occur and produce morphs. But I am not going to be selling the darts, I don't think it will distrubt anything if they are confined to that tank.

4. If mixing the same species doesn't work, will mixing one type of D. auratus with D. leucomelas work?

And finally

5. If getting only one species is the only way to go, how many would fit in a 90 gallon tank?

Thanks guys, I would prefer not to kill any frogs due to stress, but I have read several varying views about how to do it so I thought I would ask some opinions personally to see what yall thank.

You could probably keep a small group of D. auratus with either D. leucomelas, or my favorite, D. galactonotus, orange morph, as all of these do well in groups. You also might mix Phyllobates terribilis with something like one of the Dendrobates mentioned. P. vittatus might also do all right with others if given plenty of space, but in my experience, they aren't as bold as the P. terribilis and might be intimidated. This is a guess, because I've never tried it. A note of caution: Sometimes certain D. auratus may be extremely shy and easily intimidated. My blue morphs that I've had for many years hide most of the time and are rarely seen, although they've lived in their own group without any losses. A frog that hides all the time isn't much fun. So ask the breeder what the reputation for this quality is with his particular line.

From my personal experience with D. azureus, I wouldn't attempt to mix them except in mated pairs, although sometimes two males and 1 female might do O.K. They utilize a lot of space, and one pair in 30 gallons is about right, but even in a 90 (which compared to rain forest space isn't all that big) they are going to want to have it all. My own line of them are also rather larger than most other darts.

If you choose to go with a single species, which in my opinion is advisable until you get some of your own personal experience with them separately, you could probably put about 8 of either leucomelas, auratus, galactonotus or the P. terribilis/vittatus in a 90 gallon with some planted height to it. (Cork background, branches, logs, etc with epiphytes to add to the vertical territory.) I know this is somewhat less than the standard recommendation of 5 gallons per frog, but if you put 18 frogs in there, they'd be way over-crowded. The D. galactonotus in particular, are very, very active frogs and will be virtually everywhere, up-down and around. The D. leucomelas are a bit slower, but they certainly don't stay put. (The designation of terrestrial vs arboreal species is meaningless in something as limited as a even a very large glass tank.)

Hopefully, you will be able to weigh some other opinions as all experiences aren't alike, even with the same species. Mixing is done so seldom, this may also be from people quoting the accepted folk wisdom of the hobby, which is never to mix at all. And except for the Galact/auratus mix, my own suggestions have not been tried out personally, but are only a best guess from observing these species separately.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

D. auratus blue, auratus Ancon Hill, galactonotus orange, galactonotus yellow, fantasticus, reticulatus, imitator, castaneoticus, azureus, pumilio Bastimentos. P. lugubris, vittatus, terribilis mint green, terribilis orange.

Holding off on mixing until you develop some experience with the individual species is priceless advice. Mixing always gets peoples hackles up because of the hybrid issue. Aside from hybrids there are other problems. These animals are stressed easily and most if not almost all of them come with a parasite load. Stress can easily reduce the ability of the frog’s immune system to deal with these parasites. Putting too many frogs in an viv adds to the stress on each animal. Aggressive behavior also increases stress. I would suggest sticking with one bold, interesting, group tolerant species for a while. You can always try a second species in a separate viv down the road and experiment with mixing from there. I think that If you become serious about these animals you will probably skip the mixing altogether. They are interesting enough on their own.

As far as numbers go. I think terrestrial species should be given an absolute minimum of 100 square inches of floor space per frog. If your 90 gallon tank is 48” long and 18” deep (as in wide), then your floor space is 864 square inches. At most, this means you could keep eight frogs. As Patty already said, this would be too crowded. I like the idea of 200 square inches per large terrestrial dart. This guide would only allow you four frogs. Whatever you decide, the more barriers to sight that you include the less stress the frogs will be under.

I also like to have a fecal done on the frogs while they are in quarantine. If they need to be wormed, you definitely want to do this prior to introducing them to the viv. There is a lot of controversy over whether or not this is necessary though.