Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello Everyone, i'm new here..

Long time Boa Breeder, just stumbled into the wonderful world of Dart Frogs!

I was vending at the FIRE Expo and won a raffle which cost me $1. Vendors usually donate inexpensive items for these raffles, but this time I found a pair of Citronellas (hope that's right) valued at about $80! It was that or a package of plastic spiders, or a rubber snake, or a small ziplock bag of mulch.. lol

I snatched them up QUICK, always having wanted to get a few, and spent the next hour away from my table asking the nice people over at Simply Natural Dart Frogs everything I needed to know about them. They were the ones that donated these kids.

So, I was a bit nervous, not being ready for them, and still having a 4 hour drive home to Miami. I made it home near midnight and the first thing I did was setup their enclosure; for now, a 12 gallon bowfront tank, an Eclipse System 12.

I used the bioballs with cloth as a temp filter over them and river stones around the edges so you wouldn't see this. Layed the moss media next and then moss over them and some spaghnum. Then added some plants, leaves and sticks.

They've been here for 2 days and I can't get enough of them!
I had a 50 gallon tall acrylic tank I was supposed to set up for a brackish fish tank, African Cichlids or something like that... Not any more! LOL That one will have a water feature too 8)

ANYWAY, i've been dying to find other little creatures to mix with them, at least temporarily. I think the idea of a mini jungle with different creatures is so cool and would look amazing. I know we've all thought about this a bit from reading a few posts.

So, I had thought about native tree frogs, even if just for a little while when young. I've also been told Gold Dust Geckos would be ok.

I was thinking, what about Newts?
I know i've heard some wild newts have quite a toxic mucous membrane, or atleast toxic to other species of newts, but I would think Easterns, Westers, Firebellies, etc. purchased from clean pet stores would be ok, given enough room and hiding space... What do you all think?

Anyway, great reading some of your posts and I love seeing all the pics! Please keep them coming and i'll try to do the same!

Thanks for reading, Joe Rollo aka Bci Joe

Oh, and here are some pics!

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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

sorry but that wouldnt work. All those newts secrete some type of poison. Plus they have diffrent tempeture requirements.

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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Why newts? That's a weird thought.

Most newts like it a bit colder than darts. It'd be a enclosure issue.

You think one of the more common species, such as a small Eastern Newt, which can tolerate the temps the frogs need, would be too invasive or aggressive, stressing out the frogs?

Thanks, Joe
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

First of all, you really set up a nice tank for the D. tinctorius on short notice! That's impressive. This tank should keep them happy for quite a while, perhaps permanently if they are two males or a pair. Female tinctorius are particularly territorial and intolerant of other females as adults, so you'll need to watch their behavior carefully as they mature. If they begin to fight, you will need to separate them, as one can become stressed and intimidated to the point of death. This is obviously different from courting behavior, and involves wrestling and tumbling. If you hear either of them call, everything should be O.K.

It's really best not to mix different genera together, nor even different species of dart frogs. When we were discussing this issue, we were talking about possible mixing in a really huge tank, and even then, the snake we were discussing, the Amazon boa, is a very dubious tank mate. A 55 gallon would not be suitable for any mixing, but you could obtain a group of 5 or so one of the more gregarious dart frogs. The groupies include D. auratus, D. leucomelas, D. imitator (experiences with imitator vary, but mine actually do better in groups, even with some fighting between females,) D. galactonotus, Epipediobates sp., Phyllobates terribilis, vittatus or lugubris. The extremely territorial species include the D. azureus, D. tinctorius (all of the morphs, including citronella) and all D. pumilio. These need to be kept in pairs of male and female, or occasionally two males and a female, as with tinctorius. It is usually the females that do the fighting in my own experience, but I've also heard reports of male aggression in imitators and others, as well.

I don't think there is a one of us who hasn't wanted a mixed jungle environment, especially when first starting out with the hobby. The mixing issue is probably the most frequently asked question on any forum, in spite of many care sheets and stickies on the subject. The over-all answer is generally "no," or at least not until you have a lot of personal experience with each specie you want to mix, and a generous amount of space for the initial experiment. They should also come from an identical environment for temperature and humidity. That rules out newts.

I can hardly wait to see what you are going to do with a 55 gallon tank if you can set up something as nice as you did on short notice! Good luck with your first happy dart froggies.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

D. auratus blue, auratus Ancon Hill, galactonotus orange, galactonotus yellow, fantasticus, reticulatus, imitator, castaneoticus, azureus, pumilio Bastimentos. P. lugubris, vittatus, terribilis mint green, terribilis orange.

I've kind of been waiting for this moment for many, many moons, lol, and have experimented with just about everything else out there. I love nature and jungle habitats and such and was prepared to jump at the opportunity.

Thanks for the tip about the females...

I agree, I have been reading quite a bit about not even mixing different frogs.

Do we know of their behavior in the wild - do they live somewhat in groups, sharing a small space, or are they usually alone with a good distance between each?

So now I realize, not only do I have one of the most territorial species, but my favorite species, D. azureus, is also one of the most territorial. Even less chances of mixing for me! lol

Well, i've already went out and purchased quite a few plants for the new setup. I bought some of your typical stock, along with some others not commonly seen in a Terrarium type setup. Don't want to give away too much, would rather show pics soon.. 8)

Also, I purchased a Spaghnum/Peat Moss mixture mostly for media around and for the potted plants, but would this also work for growing good moss, such as pillow moss? What could you say for or against it?

I've looked at a few Waterfall kits they sell at Home Depot and others from Exo-Terra and am still thinking if I should build one or buy one.

Oh well, going to go over that list of groupies and see what's going in this tank.

Thanks again! Joe

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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Keep the media simple and relatively coarse with no artificial fertilizers, and avoid those with added vermiculite or Perlite. An organic compost, coconut fiber, long light brown sphagnum, New Zealand or Canadian) leaf litter (oak or hardwood forest litter, not conifer duff,) are all good in various combinations. Sometimes you can find something called organic Jungle Mix. I find the fine dark brown garden peat gets tight and soggy. The vermiculite, Perlite, etc. cling to frogs and can be a real pain in the butt if you have a waterway. The artificial fertilizers may harm your frogs on contact, and are totally unnecessary in a biologically recycling tank. You will have plenty of nutrients as your tank matures and soil organisms become active. So keep everything as "organic" as possible.

I have always had difficulty keeping the pillow and sheet mosses alive for any long period, so mostly use Java moss, which isn't as nice because it is longer, but it does grow better for me.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

D. auratus blue, auratus Ancon Hill, galactonotus orange, galactonotus yellow, fantasticus, reticulatus, imitator, castaneoticus, azureus, pumilio Bastimentos. P. lugubris, vittatus, terribilis mint green, terribilis orange.

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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin